Muslim wives legally invisible

[ShowMeTheHunny]

Perhaps this should be in the feminism chat, but I’ve just found out something shocking: 60% of British Muslim women are in Nikah only marriages.

Nikah is a religious marriage ceremony. Unlike Jewish or Christian marriages, there is no automatic civil registration.

This means that under British law a Muslim woman with a Nikah marriage is in fact not married at all. If the relationship ends (through separation, divorce, or death), she has: no right to spousal maintenance, no claim to property or pensions, no inheritance rights and no access to the protections of the UK Family Court.

This has been raised in parliament. This has been raised by judges. The 2018 government review found that many Muslim women believed their Nikah marriage had legal standing.

Anything done about it? Nope.

I wondered if this is covered in schools. There is a statutory relationships and sex education guidance that the DfE published which schools must follow. It does require teaching about marriage, but NOTHING in the statutory wording prompts schools to explain the difference between a religious-only ceremony and a civilly recognised marriage.

So, many/most of you might be thinking, ‘So what? It’s none of our business to interfere with others’ religious or cultural practices! Surely it’s the same situation in other countries?’

Nope. The following countries ensure, through legislation, that Islamic marriage ceremonies happen after or alongside civil registration:

France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Finland, Sweden….basically all the European countries….except Britain.

Anyway, anyone else shocked?

I don’t think that’s connected at all. Inter family marriages are risky for everyone- this is an issue in other cultures as well as Pakistani/ Bangladeshi ones so absolutely not isolated, and happens, albeit it uncommonly, in the general population too.

I assume by “telling other woman how they should live” is based on the forced and arranged marriages that lead to Cousin relationships? This is at the crux of the whole thread, I’d say. These women need to be protected, and are, by British law.

Things may well have changed by now, but when I got married in my local Baptist Church (50 years ago) we had to have a registrar present and had to say the vows of a civil ceremony ("I call upon these persons here present, to witness that I ..." etc), in addition to the religious ones ("to have and to hold, in sickness and in health..." etc), in order for the marriage to be legally binding and for us to be issued with a marriage certificate.

We had to visit the registry office in person several weeks in advance, in order that our intended marriage could be made public (the civil equivalent of C of E marriage banns).

I was under the impression that the only religious weddings that were legally recognised were those that took place in an Anglican church.

There is absolutely nothing in the quran to do with Honour killings. It is a sin to murder and abuse. If youre not happy with your child because of their choice of who to marry, and you kill them for it. Then you have created a major sin.
13.71 Do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Surely killing them is a heinous sin.

In relation to forced marriage, you absolutely cannot force someone to marry someone. It's a sin in itself. It is stated throughout hadiths (sayings/teachings of the prophet Muhammed PBUH) THAT it is a sin to force someone to marry someone and is completely Haram (not allowed in Islam) and that the marriage contract therefore is invalid. If such a person goes ahead and forces their daughter/niece for example to marry someone and they clearly dont want to, they have committed a sin.

Child marriage is also a sin. If a man marries a minor and she's clearly school age/underage then hes a slimeball. There is nothing in the quran the says its ok to marry small children /young teens.

FGM is absolutely nothing a practice in islam but a barbaric practice in certain parts of Africa. There is nothing in the quran that states to circumsice the girls. There is of course in islam , circumcision on boys, even the Jews do it and jesus himself was circumcised. Even Christian men in Africa are circumcised.
The fgm is absolutely awful. The removal of the clitoris and stitching up the labia is a practice that is so dreadful and backwards, I have no words for that. They feel that the stimulation of the clitoris is too vulgar for a woman and that they want to preserve her virginity until she's married which is why they stitch up her labia.
This is nothing to do with islam but rather backward communities who have been doing it for donkeys years. I also wish it wasn't happening.

No woman is stoned or beheaded for being raped. If the woman is stoned then it goes against shariah law.
It is rather the man who would be stoned or given a hundred lashes with a whip in public which is rightly so. However if a man was to commit adultery he would also get 100 lashes and a woman would get the same however the man would be exposed to the public and the woman would wear a head covering to protect her identity.

Women most certainly can leave the house for whatever they want, shopping with friends, popping to rhe supermarket, going to the library, go for coffee or go to a book shop. And women do have the right to pursue education, in fact the first ever university was founded by MUSLIM WOMEN.
Muslim women have the right to educate and build themselves property or businesses and the entitlement to keep all her money to herself from whatever she earns.
Yes, women do ask permission from their husbands to go outside and this is based on the fact that there are not so many safe areas in the world and it's the husbands duty as her protector and her provider to know where she is. For example of a woman said to her husband "oh honey, I want to go to Burlington to pick up a coffee table i found on Facebook. " and he says actually babe not a good idea that's a really rough area, full of drugs and thugs. " wouldn't she be better off staying home and leaving it. Or go somewhere where she could possibly be harmed. Besides a more respectful and courteous thing, to say by the way I have made plans with Anna to meet for lunch, or he would say I'm meeting Bilal to go to prayer at the mosque. Couples do do this. He might say well you know I heard theres a protest about the flags and illegals coming here, and they might see you and have a pop at you , youre better off staying home with me love" hardly the crime of the century.

If women are being opressed and not allowed to go to the hospital or opticians, or she's being forced to marry someone or hit or forced to do things she doesn't want to do , then hes the one in the wrong. Islam is not telling him to do these things.
If these countries such Afghanistan blocks women from going to school or forces everyone to wear niqab then they're going against the Islamic rules and teachings of the quran.
And they will face God on judgement day for this.

Hope that helps clarify.

It’s concerning for others to see this happen as the judgement day part is not helping the women and girls who are facing it.

When you look at it, what is the actual difference?
Nikah isn't a legal marriage in any of the countries mentioned - unless combined with the state defined registration (which in the Nordic cases might be done by the same person if licensed), which is about the same as in the UK.

In some countries it is just illegal to perform Nikah (without estate registration). In some countries the mosques self-regulate and won't perform it without state registration first.

It sounds that the mosques in the England are the only ones cheeky enough to perform their legally worthless ceremony and not caring about the wellbeing of the women they are marrying.
(I'm aware some mosques are self -regulating as well).

So, yes. I suppose I agree with you, that it should be made illegal. Good luck with the riots.

Catholic clergy aren't necessarily licenced to perform legal weddings, and a few of us have said it seems uncommon amongst Catholic priests these days. This is actually the same position as Hindu, Sikh and Muslim clerics, who can be legal celebrants but aren't necessarily. It's the C of E that's different, which is due to them being the state religion. Not sure about Jewish.

But also, it's not something the state can oblige ministers to do, in order to be allowed to perform religious rituals. It does in fact impose extra cost and requirements, since becoming a legal registrar isn't free. And they don't necessarily want to do it. Many clergy are very busy already without taking on additional duties that could be performed by someone else. The state isn't going to tell them they need to be legal celebrants in order to say a particular form of words, and nor should it try.

Do you know what would be needed to recognise a religious ceremony?

1. The ceremony ensures marriage eligibility based on the British law
2. The ceremony is run by someone who fulfills state regulations
3. The ceremony is registered back to the state registry.

It is mechanically impossible to do it without interacting with the registry office.

Most Christian denominations have the extra registry step. This is not a pro-Christian ruling, it's only in favour of those who are CofE.

I have fact checked. I included some links upthread, one from an Islamic source. Feel free to point out any incorrect information in my posts if you can find any.

The religion, as practised by hundreds of millions is misogynistic. I can’t really believe that you are claiming a religion that is utilised to do so many horrendous things against women is not.

You may be arguing that on paper the basic tenets are not misogynistic but look at how it is practised in real life by millions. If those tenets are consistently being applied in a way that enables such terrible treatment of women across the world, including here, I think they need to change something fundamental about the religion.

I don’t have an ‘agenda against Muslims’. I am pointing out the realities experienced by millions every day. I was on the other thread trying to raise awareness of the common practises of religion that is growing in this country.

Have a think about why we have to spend so much on anti terrorist protection - Islamic terrorists are 75% of the case load of MI5. Why were concerts attracting vast numbers of young women and girls targeted for terrorist attacks?

Have a think about why all school teachers have to be trained in spotting signs of forced marriage and other abuses?

How many sisters, daughters and wives have been murdered in the UK in the name of this religion?

Please fact check before you post.

please do some more research before you post.

Really? There is a 12% rate of infant mortality plus risk of serious congenital abnormalities if the mother is over 35? Do you have any data for that?

What’s the point in being given rights if they’re not enforceable?

Where is your distinction between ‘culture’ and ‘oppressing women in the name of Islam’?

If a country of say, 97 million people, 99.4% of whom are Muslim and is run by Supreme Leadership Authority of the Islamic Republic of Iran has decided to remove women’s rights in the name of Islam, where is your line between the ‘culture’ and ‘religion’?

Same question about Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

Next question, before Iran became an Islamic Republic are you aware that women had rights and freedoms they can only dream of now?

Ditto Afghanistan. Etc

I actually went to a meeting at the MOJ about it. It’s also a problem in some parts of the Jewish community and not all synagogues are registered for civil marriage.

Sigh. Apparently a sticking point was that Muslim
teens have temporary weddings in order to have sex, so requiring registration of all Nikah ceremonies (which is what was being proposed) could have unwelcome consequences.

Tell me what misinformation I have posted.

We need to discuss this for the greater good. Discussion and honesty isn’t going to make you unsafe.

I have not posted anything ‘anti-Islam’ or ‘anti Muslim’, I have just posted facts about the practises that take place in the name of Islam. Despite you complaining of me posting misinformation you haven’t refuted anything I’ve reported.

If you don’t like how that looks I’d examine the issues with the religion a bit more closely.

I know there are lots of people who don’t agree with the bad things the religion is used to enable and I’m not making generalisations about Muslims but we need to be allowed to talk about the bad stuff as we are experiencing more of it here.

Another Islam bashing thread. Again Muslim women are assumed to be meek, uneducated and uninformed.
Why the assumption that those 60% are unaware of the nikah not being valid, or that they are forced to accept a non legally binding marriage?
Did it cross your mind those women know and may accept it for whatever reason. They may prefer or not feel the need for a legal marriage, they may ey be second wives, lots of reason.
And as usual poster throwing FGM and cousin marriage or whatever as a proof of how bad Islam is, little did they know those are cultural practices with no basis in Islam.
But don't let fact stop you!

The line is that what comes from Quran and sunnah is religion, the rest is cultural. The name of the country or government doesn't matter.

On the "distinction" I'd say it's the same for all the examples, BundleBoogie - if the culture enables acceptance of horrors committed (wrongly) in the name of the faith then I blame the culture

You're absolutely right that women in Iran enjoyed a very different life before 1979, just as they once did in Afghanistan and so many others, and yet still the culture - largely that of the men, admittedly - enabled the horrors we see now to take over

Leaving aside tthat Islam's held to be immutable this is also why "changing the tenets" almost certainly wouldn't work. The horror-mongers simply don't care that they're traducing their faith, knowing full well that they have allies among the useful idiots who insist that any adverse comment on their activities is based in Islamophobia

Are you denying that so called ‘honour’ killings happen? It’s a hood job the government are paying more attention than you.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/honour-based-abuse-crackdown-in-raft-of-new-measures

Child marriage recrently revived in Iraq. Islam is the official religion and practised by 95-98% of the population.

https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/iraqs-new-law-allowing-children-as-young-as-9-to-marry-undermines-women-and-girls-rights/

Afghanistan- women nut being allowed education, medical care or to go outside the home. You may be in denial but the UN are concerned.
news.un.org/en/story/2025/05/1162826

I didn’t mention FGM but in some places there are a greater proportion of Muslim practitioners. It is abhorrent whichever religion is doing it.

Although Muslim women are more likely to have their daughter circumcised, the findings suggest the importance of a collective rather than individual Muslim identity for the continuation of the practice.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4064295/

You don’t read the news much?

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2024/05/08/1242306960/taliban-affirms-that-stoning-will-be-punishment-for-adulterers-especially-women

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/mar/28/taliban-edict-to-resume-stoning-women-to-death-met-with-horror

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34714205?app-referrer=deep-link

If these countries such Afghanistan blocks women from going to school or forces everyone to wear niqab then they're going against the Islamic rules and teachings of the quran.
And they will face God on judgement day for this.

That’s all well and good but no one is stopping that in the here and now. So millions of women are oppressed in the name of Islam. Why are you denying it?

Religion is a living experience. There’s no point in divorcing the text from the reality women and children face.

Can you not see the common thread here though?

What caused such a sudden and drastic change to the ‘culture’ when the Islamic Republic was formed?

Honor killings happen in few different cultures indipendently from the religion they follow;South Asia, some countries in Africa, even southmaditerranean countries like Italy and Greece. Nothing to do with religion.
How women lived in Afghanistan before is linked to ass licking of western countries, covering was forbidden tucking home women who didn't want to uncover.
Miniskirts weren't the traditional dress of Afghanistan, so what makes you think that it was normal to dress like that? Wasn't it because those in power were trying to follow UK and American fashions?
Easy to search up without stopping at those photos of women in miniskirts in Iran or Afghanistan, which wasn't the reality for most anyway.

Nobody is ‘bashing’ Islam.

If pointing out the bad things enabled in the name of Islam looks bad, it shows there might be a problem that needs addressing.

Lots of issues around this have been suppressed and many actual crimes enabled because people are scared of being seen to criticise Islam. That is not healthy in a modern democracy.

We need to be able to talk about the issues, I’ve heard from a number of Muslims who feel the same.

The fact that too much of the "revolution" was being run by mad dogs and that there were sufficient who thought their way of doing things was a jolly good idea, enabling the baser urges which had been held in check in better days to be given free reign

In other words culture again - just as in Afghanistan, where western withdrawal led to an almost instant revival of the taliban because that's what too many welcomed

If pointing out the bad things enabled in the name of Islam looks bad, it shows there might be a problem that needs addressing

There is a problem which needs addressing, BundleBoogie, but as many muslims will tell you it won't be addressed while so many grovel at the very suggestion of Islamophobia. Never mind that the perpetrators being talked about are no nearer being muslims than I am - if it's a useful cloak they'll grab at it, and to hell with the countless decent muslims they're disadvantaging

The issue is why a civil marriage is not carried out and i would assume the answer is that many men don't want it.