Muslim wives legally invisible

[ShowMeTheHunny]

Perhaps this should be in the feminism chat, but I’ve just found out something shocking: 60% of British Muslim women are in Nikah only marriages.

Nikah is a religious marriage ceremony. Unlike Jewish or Christian marriages, there is no automatic civil registration.

This means that under British law a Muslim woman with a Nikah marriage is in fact not married at all. If the relationship ends (through separation, divorce, or death), she has: no right to spousal maintenance, no claim to property or pensions, no inheritance rights and no access to the protections of the UK Family Court.

This has been raised in parliament. This has been raised by judges. The 2018 government review found that many Muslim women believed their Nikah marriage had legal standing.

Anything done about it? Nope.

I wondered if this is covered in schools. There is a statutory relationships and sex education guidance that the DfE published which schools must follow. It does require teaching about marriage, but NOTHING in the statutory wording prompts schools to explain the difference between a religious-only ceremony and a civilly recognised marriage.

So, many/most of you might be thinking, ‘So what? It’s none of our business to interfere with others’ religious or cultural practices! Surely it’s the same situation in other countries?’

Nope. The following countries ensure, through legislation, that Islamic marriage ceremonies happen after or alongside civil registration:

France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Finland, Sweden….basically all the European countries….except Britain.

Anyway, anyone else shocked?

Yeah, her money is hers.
And his money is his and hers.
And the quran stipulates hers and the children's entitlement in both divorce and the passing away of a spouse.

I was just about to ask how this would work among communities or relgions that allow men to have multiple wives (Islam allows up to four, I believe although the caveat is that the husband has to be able to support all of them.)
I am not sure of the legality of this under British or Scottish law at present, meaning second or subsequent wives probably have no protection even if the first one does. So that would have to be changed too.
Incidentally does Sharia law allow for all wives and children to inherit (or be entitled to) some of the late husband's estate?

What do you mean by a “slightly different pathway of care”?

Does that result in many abortions or are a far higher number of the live births suffering from congenital abnormalities?

As infant mortality alone is thought to be around 12% this may be quite high (and costly).

From the article also linked in my previous list:

The Children born of cousin marriages face an increased risk of genetic disorders and childhood mortality[2][3] and are thus prohibited in some countries.[4][5] One study estimated infant mortality at 12.7 percent for married double first cousins, 7.9 percent for first cousins, 9.2 percent for first cousins once removed/double second cousins, 6.9 percent for second cousins, and 5.1 percent among non-consanguineous progeny. Among double first cousin progeny, 41.2 percent of pre-reproductive deaths were associated with the expression of detrimental recessive genes, with equivalent values of 26.0, 14.9, and 8.1 percent for first cousins, first cousins once removed/double second cousins, and second cousins respectively.

wikiislam.net/wiki/Cousin_Marriage_in_Islamic_Law

The law doesn’t and shouldn’t allow for “second” wives.
If men decide to have an affair that’s on them. Our legal system will never legitimise polygamy and neither should it.

As a muslim female myself, it is known that a nikkah is a religious marriage ceremony, not legal. Previously years back it was not widely known but now with the internet, its easy to check. I know lots of Muslim couples who have had a registery alongside the nikkah and some who just can’t be bothered with the legal ceremony. Ultimately its up to the individual to ensure they are legally protected.

This is a huge issue. I work in developmental paediatrics, and over the 20 years the profile of children we see has massively changed. There is now many more genetic abnormalities likely due to inter marriage, at least half our caseload I would estimate, and 90% of these are from an Islamic background. This is devastating for the families and children involved, and also places a huge strain on the nhs, special schools, housing. We have many families where they have had multiple children with complex needs due to genetics.

This has been raised in parliament. This has been raised by judges. The 2018 government review found that many Muslim women believed their Nikah marriage had legal standing

Anything done about it? Nope

I was already aware of the issue, @ShowMeTheHunny, but I'm not sure what you feel can be done about it which would be acceptable to the wider muslim community?

All the information's already available, and if for whatever reason muslim women won't or can't access it that won't be an easy one to solve.
We could as you say include it in school, but then there'll be inevitable accusations of the culture being "disrespected", and very possible targeting of the teachers

In the end it's a choice, and unless we're going to start removing those from people what else is there?

Hindu marriages need to be registered as well. Nearly everyone who I know, registers their marriage immediately after the wedding ceremony.

I'm more concerned with 'forced' part of cousin marriage. CM does increase genetic risk, but it's increase from small risk to bigger but also relatively small risk.

I agree with this. There are compounding problems in the “cousin” situation which aren’t resolved by legislating marriage- women forced into having large families, multiple wives, brides and grooms coming to the uk from parts of south east Asia where effectively tribal living is in place. Unpicking this situation takes generations.

Yes, it is covered in schools. I know about it from teaching it. It is shocking. It's also often a deliberate choice to disempower women.

I think they have extra scans and possibly they might be eligible for the invasive screening procedures. I think it might just be an extra scan at my unit right now.

Having the government intervene in nikkah only marriages is the same as having them intervene in cohabiting couples. Ultimately, whether a couple is married legally is a matter for them and as long as people are aware of the risks, then they decide accordingly. It’s not an issue unique to Islam only but for many people who think living together as husband and wife makes you husband and wife.

Yes I prefer our legal system to places where cohabiting can be recognised. We have a clear distinction based on a contract. I’d apply that to everyone, no matter what ceremony you do or living arrangements the people have to take that legal step.

If they choose to I mean.

In Islam, women have the right to:

• Worship and spirituality equal to men
• Education and knowledge
• Own, inherit, and manage property and wealth
• Consent to marriage and seek divorce
• Work and participate in public life
• Protection from abuse and injustice
• Custody and respect as mothers
• Modesty and dignity in dress and treatment

You were saying about Islam being Misogynistic? Please do your own research before spreading misinformation.

How widespread is the ability for women to exercise those rights though?

Why do we see ‘honour’ killings, forced marriage, children being taken abroad for forced marriage and FGM in the name of Islam? This is in the UK.

Then we have the countries where women are stoned to death as punishment for being raped, child marriage is legalised from age 9 (a recent law change in Iraq), women are not allowed education, medical treatment or even to leave the house.

Women in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Iran etc are not allowed to exercise the rights you list. Women in this country are protected by our legal rights here but some still suffer.

It’s quite mind blowing that you think this is not misogynistic.

I DID do my research and listened to Muslims. That’s what I learned.

@Justiceeternal
does having right in modesty and dignity in dress and treatment mean they got beaten for their clothes?
Qoran says woman hair's is dirty. There's nothing woman loving about that

It also strikes me that several items in your list are the most basic of human rights. I should very much hope a religion practised so widely at least claims to give women those rights.

Obviously those rights got cancelled in many countries.

I’m not remotely shocked.

Quite. While women get murdered for not wearing the prescribed Islamic dress and coverings, I wouldn’t be boasting about that as a ‘right’ that benefits women.

What odd views on women’s rights are held by some.

Not shocked at all. Didn't know about it but not shocked.

What about the all the British children conceived from a drunken one night stand or who’s parent aren’t married? I would prefer to have a religious ceremony than none at all

I think the women do know. If you are a Hindhu or Sikh then you also have the civil marriage so that you are legally married. This is alongside the religious marriage that is performed. If you are born here this is a known fact.

We can’t keep expecting school to teach everything.

The religion is not Misogynistic as I said. Don’t blame Islam and all Muslim men for the actions of some. What is the purpose of your posts? You were in that other AIBU group chat too doing the same. Have you got an agenda against Muslims? Please fact check before you post.

Whilst it is far less socially acceptable in western societies, the risk of having a child with your first cousin is equivalent to having a baby over 35 years old.