Botox & frozen faces

[Expressionless]

If you have Botox to the parts of your face that mean you’ve rendered yourself unable to move large part of your face or have very little movement in your eyebrows / around your eyes, does it not bother you that you essentially look frozen and expressionless?

At the end of the day, most of us, would like to reduce fine lines and wrinkles - we live in a world that holds women to ridiculous youth standards - basically we all feel we shouldn’t age and that an ageing face is the worst possible outcome. But at what cost does this come?

Watching almost all TV / films now means any woman over about 25, maybe 30 at a push essentially has a frozen face and quite literally can’t show emotions properly. Most men don’t do it, so it’s definitely a sexist standard.

Women saying they ‘do it for themselves’ - well okay, but only because you’ve been conditioned to find ageing abhorrent.

Why can’t we just be left the fuck alone, to age and have faces that move and show our expressions and feelings. Like we have for 1,000’s of years.

I never really ger these threads where people rake issue with other folks appearance, and then bizzarely deciding it is due to the patriarchy, like women are so thick they don’t know they’ve apparently been conditioned, and only the superior op and those like her know it.

women and men having been chasing youthful looks since the beginnings of time. Botox done well doesn’t give a frozen look. Only bad Botox does and no one deliberately wants bad Botox.

i don’t have it, but for me it’s no different to dying the greys out or wearing concealer to hide the baggy eyes.

live and let live. If you want to show your wrinkles good for you op. Seriously. But you don’t get to put down anyone who doesn’t.

and lastly plenty of men have these treatments, plenty. So misogynistic to think otherwise.

Same as weight loss injections. Decades ago when Botox came out the likes of the op were all over the injecting poision mantra. Any choice a woman makes, there is someone right behind her waiting to slag her off.

Just making it clear & underlining again, that the stuff I do to feel good about ME is for ME and my choice.
The botox, light lip filler (as my upperlip ‘disappears’), the mounjjaro, collagen supplements, nails & food I put in my body.
My standards are MINE, as is my body - and I feel fucking fabulous about myself, my looks & my choices.
What you choose to do to feel the same is YOUR business and impacts precisely zero on my life. As does what I do on yours. So why do you feel a need to opine about the choices of others so much?
it is NO different from criticising what women wear and frankly, it’s tedious & needless.
i am sure we are strong and self confident women aware of what we choose & why.

Funnily enough, this thread made me think of the weight loss injections, and some people’s extreme reaction to those that are taking them. It’s this idea that you’re somehow ‘cheating’ and therefore making other people feel bad.

I guess there has been such advancements in medical techniques generally that the beauty industry was always going to exploit this for money - plastic surgery was initially developed to help disfigured soldiers, tretinoin was initially developed as acne medication, I’m sure there’s loads more examples..

You could also say OP that it’s unfair that wealthy people will get to access the best medical treatments available, when poorer people have to do without.

C’est la vie.

What is the social penalty, in your eyes? Honestly, it just seems you want to tear down other women.

Huge industry of giving pets supplements to push back the ravages of time (and somewhat scammy tbh).

You can absolutely do whatever makes you feel good - but let’s not pretend those choices happen in a vacuum. Beauty standards, ageism and social media all fuel why so many women feel pushed toward tweakments. Saying it’s just personal and telling others to stay quiet ignores that bigger picture. And the whole ‘my body, my choice so don’t comment’ line is an utter cop-out - I’m here to debate, it’s a forum and that includes questioning an industry that profits from making women feel they’re not enough and a culture than normalises it.

As do your choices get influenced. You’re not superior as you make different choices. As said I don’t have Botox, but I don’t judge people who do, nor do I make misogynistic erroneous statements that it’s all women. Whatever drives you to judge other women needs to be examined. Be it unhappiness in your own appearance, envy of others, self soothing by slagging others off, who knows Except you. Deep down you know.

Botox has been in use since the 70s, first of all to treat crossed eyes, and was obviously subject to the same testing as any other medication at the time.

So it’s been around for half a century; I’d more readily opt for Botox than, say, Mounjaro, which has far fewer years of usage to look at.

You’re not wrong - which is why there is also a type of snobbery on here from some posters about how they’ve got the ‘best injector’ and only used highly qualified dr’s for their tweaks.

Sadly, you’re also right about these procedures being mass marketed for profit, preying on insecurities.

You’re making a lot of assumptions about me that aren’t true. Questioning beauty standards and the pressure to get procedures isn’t misogyny - it’s about why so many of us feel pushed that way. I never said ‘all women,’ so stop twisting my words.

Calling it envy or trying to make it personal isn’t an argument. I’m talking about culture and pressure, not tearing women down and you’re the one insinuating all sorts of things about me knowing ‘deep down’ and making it personal.

The sheer amount of derailing is bananas!

I didn’t say it was. Saying it’s women and not men is misogyny and erroneous though,

But you're not talking about culture and pressure. You're talking about women choosing to have procedures you have decided look awful, yet bizarrely given they look so bad, inspiring other women to emulate them. You are focusing on this one aspect of some women's behaviour as key to creating an environment where its not ok to look old.
This is a poor exploration of culture, and either demonstrates a very underdeveloped understanding of how our cultural norms have been set, why and by whom, or is a deliberate cherry picking of a factor for which you are able to blame women.

which is why there is also a type of snobbery on here from some posters about how they’ve got the ‘best injector’

Oh give over. That's quite the reach.
Unless you just go to any random hairdresser; pick hotels out of the blue without reading the reviews; would use any workman advertising on your local Facebook group, etc etc?
It's not snobbery to want to spend your money on services that are good. It's common sense.

I didn’t say that..🤷🏻‍♀️

Missing the point - I’m talking about snobbery towards women who’ve chosen a ‘bad’ injector as well as the fact it’s very expensive to maintain - therefore only open to those with money or those who will accept going into debt to achieve it.

I think you're kidding yourself if you think no men get Botox. I think it's pretty common at least with media people and celebs.

I agree, but you can argue the same about any beauty treatment and also things like the weight loss jabs.

You look amazing!

Botox - done well - is the best thing ever.

That’s a 9 year old child’s retort, cringeworthy. I hope you don’t get your hair cut as you won’t want scissor near your brain.

@5128gap
That’s funny, because I haven’t ’decided’ anything of the sort and I am talking about those specific topics in the majority of my comments and to say otherwise is gaslighting frankly. Why you feel the need to keep trying to push this weird personal agenda against me is becoming very tiresome.

I do think it’s a sad world when we (women, and a much smaller minority of men) have our insecurities exploited to the degree they are, where we’ve normalised women injecting botulin into their faces to freeze or relax the muscles, to feel better about themselves - at a great cost to ourselves and our future children.

Have you got anything else to add to the conversation? Or just some more personal digs about my perceived bad character? 😉

What happened to growing a fringe? 😂 I thought that was the plan to hide signs of ageing.

No one has said NO men..

You literally make no sense. Who am I judging and looking down on, women who don’t have any work done? Each to their own. You are the one looking down on people, being sanctimonious, pretending to care about women and their self esteem. All so you can be pious about being natural and individual. If anyone needs to ‘give over’, it’s you.