Botox & frozen faces

[Expressionless]

If you have Botox to the parts of your face that mean you’ve rendered yourself unable to move large part of your face or have very little movement in your eyebrows / around your eyes, does it not bother you that you essentially look frozen and expressionless?

At the end of the day, most of us, would like to reduce fine lines and wrinkles - we live in a world that holds women to ridiculous youth standards - basically we all feel we shouldn’t age and that an ageing face is the worst possible outcome. But at what cost does this come?

Watching almost all TV / films now means any woman over about 25, maybe 30 at a push essentially has a frozen face and quite literally can’t show emotions properly. Most men don’t do it, so it’s definitely a sexist standard.

Women saying they ‘do it for themselves’ - well okay, but only because you’ve been conditioned to find ageing abhorrent.

Why can’t we just be left the fuck alone, to age and have faces that move and show our expressions and feelings. Like we have for 1,000’s of years.

Funny. It always strikes me as the other way round entirely.
When was the last time you saw a thread outside of maybe S&B started by someone wanting to extol the benefits of botox and persuade other women they really should get it?
People who have procedures tend to just mind their business and get on with it. Its people for whom it's nothing to do with their lives who are always the most invested.
Thread after thread asking the same questions "why do women want to look like plastic aliens/inject POISON!!!/have low self esteem/look OLDER!!!/be a bad influence on
young women...?"
Ask those questions and its obvious responses are going to come from women who have procedures, because those who don't can add nothing but a little extra flurry of disapproval.
People who have procedures explain their thinking and describe their experience. They share their superior knowledge of a product that unlike the disapprovers, they actually have personal experience of.
And in return get told they are wrong. That strangers know more about their psychology and appearance than they do, have seemingly researched and have greater expertise about a product they have no intention of using than those who do. It's arrogant and disrespectful and of course people will be moved to challenge you.

About 4yrs ago I had botox in my forehead. Just a little bit to see if it would flatten out my lines. I did consider a fringe, but my hairdresser vetoed it!!!

Unfortunately the botox migrated to my eye, which meant I looked like a stroke victim for about 4 weeks. But if it hadn't of happened, I would have continued to have it done.

I tried lip filler once too. Cost an absolute fortune, hurt like hell ... and I really couldn't tell any difference.

It's arrogant and disrespectful and of course people will be moved to challenge you.

I have been "challenged", as you put it - aka mocked and ridiculed - for making this simple statement:

Having a highly poisonous toxin injected into your face, which is right next to your brain, is indeed a really weird thing to do and to have normalised.

Apparently, or so I've been told, the face is nowhere near the brain. Okay...

I'm not sure how that's relevent? A person mocking you doesn't mean that every woman who has procedures is invested and defensive by default, or has an ulterior motive. Mostly we just get on with it quietly. But this thread asked questions only we can answer. If those answers are not accepted then it's obvious we keep going. That's what discussion is.

Thanks for explaining the bleeding obvious, more than once, so I don't have to.

It's so funny that the thing missing from all these "telltale signs of Botox" articles is always the blindingly obvious THE LINES ARE GONE. I thought when I first got it done that everyone would notice my 11s were gone as they were quite deep, but nobody did. I think they just thought I was now sleeping and eating better and looking fresher. But even when it is as simple as THE LINES ARE GONE, it somehow gets complicated into a supernatural "sheen" as the light bounces off it differently... yes, of course it looks different when you have light on it and can see it. THE LINES ARE GONE! CUT THE X FILES MUSIC, IT IS NOT THAT STRANGE! I have a naturally smooth forehead with no worry lines right now. Yes, it looks different to my mother's forehead, by which I mean smoother or light reflects differently or whatever you want to call it, and I have no doubt it'll look different in ten years' time. Even if I Botox it, it won't get a stretched look unless I get filler or surgery, which I'm not planning ever to do.

Guys, loads and loads of people get Botox and most of us are happy about it. It's hugely popular for a reason. Get over it, ffs.

Well we can see ourselves and you can't, so forgive me for trusting what I see in the mirror more than what you, with presumably no experience of this, have made up in your head. As for influencing younger women, you flatter me. Young women are influenced by social media, celebrities and music videos. They are not influenced by obscure, ordinary looking middle aged women who get their 11s done discreetly when they're not working, doing the school run or loading the dishwasher.

I know a few people who had lip filler. As with anything, of course it can be done badly and we've all seen examples. But these people had lips so thin they were almost invisible. Now they just have what look like thin lips. There would have been nothing wrong with them embracing how they looked before, but I can absolutely understand why they feel a bit happier now.

I don't think you can see yourselves talking and listening. A still look at yourself in the mirror or a photograph is not the same as what those around you see when you are in animation (or non-animation, as the case may be).

Young women are also influenced by their mothers, sisters, aunts and all the other women in their lives - not just socials and influencers.
To say otherwise is disingenuous, regardless of the topic at hand.

You're right, women who have Botox NEVER check out the effect by talking or moving in the mirror. Or asking people they trust what it looks like. Because as well as bring vain, vapid, ugly, terrible mothers, snobs and all that, we're also totally disinterested in the effect we paid to get and whether it's doing what we want! We are whatever you need us to be!

You show me the evidence of young women whose lives were ruined because their totally normal and everyday mothers had a minor cosmetic procedure every few months that they probably don't even know about, and I will laugh at you. Wow, a vapid hag, a snob and now a terrible mother, aunt etc. Imagine what I could do if I wanted to do harm. Today a small cosmetic procedure, tomorrow THE WORLD!!!!

I would say I don't know why you have such a ridiculously exaggerated idea of the effect Botox can have on its own, both as a procedure and a societal influence, but we all do. Just get it done, ffs. You will be much happier than you clearly are flailing around on the Internet flinging anything you think might stick about it. You'll probably be disappointed at how little anyone notices or cares.

I would say I don’t know why you have such an exaggerated mocking response to anyone not agreeing with you. Are you like this with everyone who doesn’t agree? Just doubling down and mocking others opinions? Do you find that helps change minds or win favour?

The continued ‘just admit you want Botox’ line is losing its punch at this point. It’s like you’re trying to speak for everyone - and many PP’s have not agreed with you and there are wide range of opinions on offer.

Let’s agree to disagree - clearly that’s the case here. Unless you have something interesting to add to the debate? Rather than more mockery.

I started having botox (with an ex doctor) for migraines. It's amazing. But as a side effect, it also reduced my frown lines which appeared when I was about 20 after a lifetime of frowning. Now 42, in my very late 30s I also started getting lines across my forehead (faint but there) and the botox also helped those. However, as a skilled medical professional, he knows his stuff and the dose I get means I don't ever look frozen. It softens everything and freshens me up.

I started in March 2022 at the age of 39, for migraines. I've been having it every 5 months ever since, and if I can afford to I will continue as it helps the migraines and stress feeling in my face, and makes me feel good.

What you are seeing as overly done faces, are people having high doses alongside fillers.

I can tell you that - I type fast and I'm naturally sarcastic. I do appreciate it can be a bit overwhelming to read, but I assure you it takes very little out of me. And I thought it was obvious, but it's not about you not agreeing with me, it's about you placing a moral value on something that has no moral value and therefore declaring everyone who doesn't agree with you as morally dubious. You've called me and other women vain, shallow, unattractive, snobs, bad female relations and so on because we get a small, very common procedure done that you can't bring yourself to do. Obviously it's not true, so it doesn't hurt my feelings, but yes it is irritating to be moralised at by someone who's wrong and has no place to be doing it, and if I feel like giving my response then I will.

And I say it's obvious that you want Botox because it is obvious that you do. You think women who get it haven't seen the overdone frozen faces and heard all the cruel jibes and moralistic rebukes like yours? You think we weren't ever concerned? I was worried but after a while my 11s following my horrible tragedy were so deep and horrid, I decided I'd look into it. The practitioner was a doctor whom I trusted (because I'm a snob, remember) and I was honest about my concerns. He talked me through it, made it clear how you get that effect and that he would not do wrong by his patients, explained he had it done himself, and I decided to go for it. I am totally happy with it and you'd be amazed, and very disappointed, if you saw how totally ordinary I look.

Nobody goes at it like you are out of altruistic concern for the younger generation or whatever. You very, very clearly would like to get it done but you think it's beneath you. That's up to you but stop blaming those of us who don't buy the rubbish you're selling.

It isn't a look I like personally, I find it a bit unsettling how everyone seems to have the same face because these procedures go against the natural contours of their own human face.

But my real issue is with so many women feeling so much pressure to look this certain way. Its incredibly sad!

Another reply with more of the same doubling down and accusations of personal insults and projection. It’s not moralising to care about how beauty standards might affect future women and girls and your relentless reframing of me as some faux altruistic moraliser is tedious as fuck.

Drawing attention to snobbery around practitioners, or to how certain behaviours affect future generations of women (and men now) is not the same as personally insulting you and calling you a snob (or the many other names you keep throwing about) however much you try to frame it as such.

I’m sorry you’ve experienced a horrible tragedy in your life, life is fucking hard, I lost my sibling to suicide a few years ago, so I have been down the rabbit hole of misery myself.

If you want to have a debate, then great, but the continual doubling down and painting me as the devil incarnate isn’t really helping change minds or providing much of any sort of discussion is it.

This is a completely empty post full of nothing but argument by assertion, misrepresentation of your previous posts (you absolutely did call it snobbery to mention that I use a reputable place, which is exactly the same as calling me a snob, as just one example) and emotional blackmail. It is not worth the time I took to respond to it but now I've done it I might as well hit post.

@ThatCyanCat

You’ve taken this out of context multiple times now.

I’m talking about a general snobbery between wealthy people being able to afford the best / highly skilled practitioners and those who can’t (and subsequently looking worse for it).

Obviously it’s your prerogative to step away, but trying to continually misrepresent what I’ve said is just another example really.

Also - emotional blackmail - fgs. You’ve mentioned your personal tragedy - I was trying to meet you there, because, well, we’re all humans behind the keyboard!

Caught myself in the mirror the other day and was horrified. I've hit a very ugly stage and its only gonna get worse. Wrinkles, lines, blemishes, thin lips...😭
Would love a bit of botox, but not sure who to go to.

How rude to comment on other people's faces. People don't have to arrange their faces to please you.

No, your post about snobbery was you imagining that since I mentioned I'm not an idiot who went to see a total charlatan, I am a snob boasting about "the best injectors", a phrase you made up. It's just one example.

I mentioned the premature lines I got after my tragedy to counter the silly narrative, from you and others, that we all have Botox in a deranged, Snow White evil queen way to try to look 21 forever (good luck if you think Botox will do that). You mentioned yours, which obviously I am sorry to hear and wish had not happened, because you took it as some kind of competition.

I don't think you're the devil incarnate. I think you're a woman who wants Botox, can't resolve that with all the negative stuff you've heard about it and therefore have placed a moral value on it that it doesn't have and want women who get it to feel bad so you can feel better about not doing it. It isn't going to work.

To me - this post hits the very crux of the issue with this thread.

There has been a lot of talk on this thread about the importance of open debate and discussion on Botox. I’m all for this. I don’t get Botox currently but know a lot of people who do and I’m always interested in hearing about the pros and cons (side effects, risks, etc). Other people might not be interested in this as they are 100% sure it’s not for them - totally fine.

However, this thread is personally attacking those who choose to get Botox. I’ve read words like “weird” and “expressionless”. You cannot use disparaging terms like this to describe a group of individuals (women who get Botox) and then be surprised when they respond emotively and defensively.

As I read it, posters are not getting upset with OP because she disagrees with them - they are getting upset because their appearance is being criticised (with a bit of moral judgement thrown in for good measure).

Crikey!

You very, very clearly would like to get it done

That is a bit of a silly stretch I think.