Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sick of the lie 'It's just illegal immigrants people don't like.'

1000 replies

Slightyamusedandsilly · 26/09/2025 22:08

This is just not true.

Reform, the flag flyers and protesters are racists. All of this 'It's just the illegals we want gone.' is a lie to excuse their racism.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Dogsandhens · 30/10/2025 22:44

Kimdsd · 30/10/2025 17:27

I fire mine off in my urban area. I live in London. In an area which has many other fellow celebrators. It was so much fun. No livestock near me. I finish at 10:30 after having a jolly good time with friends and family.

If they don't like it, they can wear earmuffs

That's anti social then. My dogs when I was younger were medicated on Nov 5 with tranquilisers as they were so frightened. They have much more sensitive ears than humans ..many dogs that arent bred for shooting for example or even those that are are "gun shy" because of it and that also applies to the loud bangs of fireworks. They dont understand the noise as its unnatural and many breeds find them terrifying. You don't sound like a terrible person who would want to needlessly be cruel to animals so perhaps stop and think before having a few moments of fun. I don't say that as the fireworks police, I just say that having watched my dogs vomit and tremble in terror and then collapse on Nov 5th before we started giving them tranquilisers. That's possibly what will be happening to neighbouring dogs.

Dogsandhens · 30/10/2025 22:46

Dagda · 30/10/2025 19:53

You do realise how much more densely populated India is compared to the UK right?

No obviously not. But the PP doesn't care about animal welfare in India so I see it's irrelevant whether its empty or full.

Toastandbutterand · 30/10/2025 23:11

GaIadriel · 30/10/2025 16:32

This is surely down to the burden of proof in many cases? In the UK most rapes happen behind closed doors. We don't really see the public gang rapes that are popular in places like Egypt. Well, we didn't until 1200 German women were sexually assaulted in one night by men described as 'of North African appearance'.

In fact, I can't think of a single example of anything similar being perpetrated by European men in my lifetime.

Pelicot.

3000 men on the polices list, all originating from contact with one man who raped his sleeping wife. Discovered by accident. Not one of those men reported it to anyone in authority. Not one. Out of over 3000.

Catholic church.

I think the Epstein case has the potential to be huge, but whether we'll see it is another question.

So many layers in the Jimmy saville case.

Weinstein and the me too movement.

All these cases were massive and they all involved grooming.

Rather than race, id say that overwhelming it's men that are involved. I really don't think race matters at all.

parmaviolas · 30/10/2025 23:19

GaIadriel · 29/10/2025 23:31

England is an incredibly racist, misogynist country.

So, which countries should we look up to?

Most of Europe is much more racist than we are - Italians, Eastern Europeans, etc. The Indians I used to work with used to say some pretty nasty stuff about Pakistanis and vice versa. My Muslim workmate doesn't like Jews. My Lithuanian workmate doesn't seem to like anybody that isn't white. A Thai women I used to know (well off, owns a successful restaurant) doesn't like Chinese people or black/brown people. Japanese people are known to be pretty racist towards black people. Arabs/middle eastern countries are well known for exploiting and abusing Filipino maids in a way that wouldn't be deemed acceptable over here.

There is racism in most countries/cultures and wokeness is primarily a thing of the UK/US.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY

GoodTimesNoodleSalad · 30/10/2025 23:25

Toastandbutterand · 30/10/2025 23:11

Pelicot.

3000 men on the polices list, all originating from contact with one man who raped his sleeping wife. Discovered by accident. Not one of those men reported it to anyone in authority. Not one. Out of over 3000.

Catholic church.

I think the Epstein case has the potential to be huge, but whether we'll see it is another question.

So many layers in the Jimmy saville case.

Weinstein and the me too movement.

All these cases were massive and they all involved grooming.

Rather than race, id say that overwhelming it's men that are involved. I really don't think race matters at all.

We can look to statistics, and the fact that men from certain countries offend at higher rates than others, rather than your opinion that it matters not at all what someone’s culture or background may be.

Dagda · 30/10/2025 23:26

Dogsandhens · 30/10/2025 22:44

That's anti social then. My dogs when I was younger were medicated on Nov 5 with tranquilisers as they were so frightened. They have much more sensitive ears than humans ..many dogs that arent bred for shooting for example or even those that are are "gun shy" because of it and that also applies to the loud bangs of fireworks. They dont understand the noise as its unnatural and many breeds find them terrifying. You don't sound like a terrible person who would want to needlessly be cruel to animals so perhaps stop and think before having a few moments of fun. I don't say that as the fireworks police, I just say that having watched my dogs vomit and tremble in terror and then collapse on Nov 5th before we started giving them tranquilisers. That's possibly what will be happening to neighbouring dogs.

I don’t know if you can blame Indians for this. The fireworks are on one day. We also have fireworks on one day - I think this is also fine.

My dog is also trembling during fireworks but my issue would be the constant fireworks throughout October which I don’t think we can lay at the feet of the Indian community. Now I’m not in the UK but Indians here make up an important part of our health system and so many finance jobs. So I’ll take the one day they want to throw the fireworks,

Toastandbutterand · 30/10/2025 23:28

I also think it's very dependent on where you grew up. I grew up in a mainly white suburb of London. It was older white men who bought our drinks and invited us to parties filled with mainly older white men. I really don't think it's race dependent.

Most of the Muslim men I know don't drink for a start, and we were lured by the promise of free alcohol and pretending to be grown up that age.

Toastandbutterand · 30/10/2025 23:33

GoodTimesNoodleSalad · 30/10/2025 23:25

We can look to statistics, and the fact that men from certain countries offend at higher rates than others, rather than your opinion that it matters not at all what someone’s culture or background may be.

But the statistics say they don't, or that it's so small that it can be accounted for by racial bias.

This very thread shows that racial bias.

Look at it.

Its descended to scare stories about rape and scaring dogs with fireworks.youre more likely to be raped by a white guy you know. And I know nothing about pets fears of fireworks. Mine have never cared on 50 years. I'm sure it's traumatic if it happens but if fucking bonfire night soon. You can't possibly blame immigrants.

People do just hate immigrants and make up shit to justify it.

OutsideNetty · 30/10/2025 23:35

I'm old enough to remember migrants from rural Pakistan, Bangladesh and the Punjab arriving for work in the north of England in the 1970s and 80s. The governments of the day, national and local, wanted the labour but spent no time or resources on planning for or mitigating the effects of larger-scale immigration.

South Asian migrants were mainly housed, privately or by councils, in the poorest areas of cities among white residents who had themselves often been split from old communities and moved from older housing to 'modern' estates. There was economic recession and industries were struggling.

Looking back, I'm amazed how well people managed, despite their lack of say in housing policy, boom and bust in employment and the difference between the cultures. It's hard to underestimate the levels of religious conservatism of the rural Asian migrants and the extent to which migrants did not want to integrate in terms of language and community. Locals didn't want them to integrate either and no-one was supported, no-one. There were truces, and accommodations, corner shops and mosques built out of red bricks but people were just left to integrate or not, manage or not.

All the local MPS and most of the councillors in the areas I'm thinking of were Labour - the 'red wall'. Some unions and old-school Labour people spoke about the problems of immigration but it was the point where more up-and-coming senior Labour people and uni-based activists were interested in anti-racist campaigns, so racism and white skinheads became the conversation instead.

But lots of people did manage, and communities were rebuilt, although successful Asian business people moved to wealthier areas where they could, as did and do middle-class Asian professionals. But the working-class communities weren't left to develop existing relationships - further waves of migration, via the EU or permanent migration pathways from South Asia and parts of Africa, for extended families, students, employees arrived. Many arriving in those same previously working-class estates.

Migrant communities settled for several generations complained about the new waves - Roma and other EE travellers made a mainly Bangladeshi community's life hell for a few years, and so on. There are hard-working Somali guys doing up old cars for a living, but also fully-fledged Punjabi gangsters who don't speak English running big money rackets.

And that's before we even get to the asylum seekers in local hotels.

It's still a struggle, but 'racism' shuts the conversations down. Labour needs to have whatever conversations and debates that are necessary to articulate the problems, or Reform will.

Toastandbutterand · 30/10/2025 23:41

OutsideNetty · 30/10/2025 23:35

I'm old enough to remember migrants from rural Pakistan, Bangladesh and the Punjab arriving for work in the north of England in the 1970s and 80s. The governments of the day, national and local, wanted the labour but spent no time or resources on planning for or mitigating the effects of larger-scale immigration.

South Asian migrants were mainly housed, privately or by councils, in the poorest areas of cities among white residents who had themselves often been split from old communities and moved from older housing to 'modern' estates. There was economic recession and industries were struggling.

Looking back, I'm amazed how well people managed, despite their lack of say in housing policy, boom and bust in employment and the difference between the cultures. It's hard to underestimate the levels of religious conservatism of the rural Asian migrants and the extent to which migrants did not want to integrate in terms of language and community. Locals didn't want them to integrate either and no-one was supported, no-one. There were truces, and accommodations, corner shops and mosques built out of red bricks but people were just left to integrate or not, manage or not.

All the local MPS and most of the councillors in the areas I'm thinking of were Labour - the 'red wall'. Some unions and old-school Labour people spoke about the problems of immigration but it was the point where more up-and-coming senior Labour people and uni-based activists were interested in anti-racist campaigns, so racism and white skinheads became the conversation instead.

But lots of people did manage, and communities were rebuilt, although successful Asian business people moved to wealthier areas where they could, as did and do middle-class Asian professionals. But the working-class communities weren't left to develop existing relationships - further waves of migration, via the EU or permanent migration pathways from South Asia and parts of Africa, for extended families, students, employees arrived. Many arriving in those same previously working-class estates.

Migrant communities settled for several generations complained about the new waves - Roma and other EE travellers made a mainly Bangladeshi community's life hell for a few years, and so on. There are hard-working Somali guys doing up old cars for a living, but also fully-fledged Punjabi gangsters who don't speak English running big money rackets.

And that's before we even get to the asylum seekers in local hotels.

It's still a struggle, but 'racism' shuts the conversations down. Labour needs to have whatever conversations and debates that are necessary to articulate the problems, or Reform will.

And where I lived it was mainly white men who came in for building jobs and to run taxis.

So it was white men. So you're not racist to point out that where you were it was brown men. As im not racist to say it was white men here.

But it was all men.

Toastandbutterand · 30/10/2025 23:46

Outsidenetty, I do really appreciate your post btw.

It's very well explained. I wish all debate on this was as informed as your post, unfortunately it isn't.

BundleBoogie · 30/10/2025 23:55

Toastandbutterand · 30/10/2025 23:33

But the statistics say they don't, or that it's so small that it can be accounted for by racial bias.

This very thread shows that racial bias.

Look at it.

Its descended to scare stories about rape and scaring dogs with fireworks.youre more likely to be raped by a white guy you know. And I know nothing about pets fears of fireworks. Mine have never cared on 50 years. I'm sure it's traumatic if it happens but if fucking bonfire night soon. You can't possibly blame immigrants.

People do just hate immigrants and make up shit to justify it.

On the contrary. The statistics say that men from countries like Somalia, Morocco, Iraq are very much over represented in violent crime convictions. I think you need to do some serious research before throwing around your accusations of racism.

Sick of the lie 'It's just illegal immigrants people don't like.'
Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 00:10

BundleBoogie · 30/10/2025 23:55

On the contrary. The statistics say that men from countries like Somalia, Morocco, Iraq are very much over represented in violent crime convictions. I think you need to do some serious research before throwing around your accusations of racism.

Is this the danish study that has 'mainly accounted for by racial bias' slashed across it?

And is the ONLY study that shows this?

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 00:13

Oh yeah, it is.

Id get you to a sociology course so you understand it better.

And perhaps quote the biases that the study explicitly stated in the paper.

All this shows is that certain ethnicities are more likely to be convicted. Not that they're more likely to offend.

And the conclusion of this study says this.

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 00:18

It also doesn't mention fireworks.

OutsideNetty · 31/10/2025 00:18
  • overestimate.

Toastandbutterand I'm just outlining one story among many of how working people have tried to get on with things and how far away from sociology seminars what BBC journos used to call 'race relations' is actually experienced.

I think everyone is racist in their thinking, including me, including people who were in sociology seminars and think they aren't. I tend to think it's quite ordinary, and some of the practices that arise from it are destructive. One of the things which keeps people in entrenched positions is not talking directly to each other but being mediated, sponsored and patronised by a political class which believes it has the right to do so.

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 00:23

OutsideNetty · 31/10/2025 00:18

  • overestimate.

Toastandbutterand I'm just outlining one story among many of how working people have tried to get on with things and how far away from sociology seminars what BBC journos used to call 'race relations' is actually experienced.

I think everyone is racist in their thinking, including me, including people who were in sociology seminars and think they aren't. I tend to think it's quite ordinary, and some of the practices that arise from it are destructive. One of the things which keeps people in entrenched positions is not talking directly to each other but being mediated, sponsored and patronised by a political class which believes it has the right to do so.

I agree with you. I found your post compelling, realistic and understandable. I see where you're coming from.

I disagree, but I understand you. And I think that's fundamental to finding a solution and a way forward.

I get very frustrated with posters who post racist crap as if it's universal and a fact.

You didn't.

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 00:32

I think,.outsidenetty, that this is an important consideration but I think that it would just result in more nonsense on Mumsnet.

I agree that the political classes have shaped this. I probably think differently to you in the how but this is why I read these threads, to hear voices like yours.

It's just I'm also an idiot and start shouting at other people 🤣

But my idea is to read these threads and hear voices like yours. I'm ADHD and not very good at expressing myself, so apologies if I sound weird.

I think people that frame questions and facts in the way you do are the people who can promote understanding and compromise. I am all for that.

Petitchat · 31/10/2025 04:12

Toastandbutterand · 30/10/2025 23:33

But the statistics say they don't, or that it's so small that it can be accounted for by racial bias.

This very thread shows that racial bias.

Look at it.

Its descended to scare stories about rape and scaring dogs with fireworks.youre more likely to be raped by a white guy you know. And I know nothing about pets fears of fireworks. Mine have never cared on 50 years. I'm sure it's traumatic if it happens but if fucking bonfire night soon. You can't possibly blame immigrants.

People do just hate immigrants and make up shit to justify it.

People DO NOT hate immigrants and you still won't shut down their concerns by saying that.

Repeat it as much as you like, makes no difference.
People will continue relaying their concerns.

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 04:23

Petitchat · 31/10/2025 04:12

People DO NOT hate immigrants and you still won't shut down their concerns by saying that.

Repeat it as much as you like, makes no difference.
People will continue relaying their concerns.

I'm just so bored of this racist crap now

I'm am immigrant. You directly insult me every time you post this pretend racist shit.

But you go mental if I say you're racist. Go figure.

Supremacist crap.

Petitchat · 31/10/2025 04:27

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 04:23

I'm just so bored of this racist crap now

I'm am immigrant. You directly insult me every time you post this pretend racist shit.

But you go mental if I say you're racist. Go figure.

Supremacist crap.

Normal people with concerns.....

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 04:50

Petitchat · 31/10/2025 04:27

Normal people with concerns.....

Wtf.

I'm normal. I'm a immigrant who has grave concerns about the racism in this country.

I feel unsafe. I am afraid.

I've lived here 50 years.

What do you even mean? Why are you making me feel I have to justify my existence.

This whole rhetoric is so fucked up.

Why on earth do you consider yourself more normal than me?

Ew ee Ew ee Ew.

Fuck off back to your own fungus.

RingoJuice · 31/10/2025 05:35

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 00:13

Oh yeah, it is.

Id get you to a sociology course so you understand it better.

And perhaps quote the biases that the study explicitly stated in the paper.

All this shows is that certain ethnicities are more likely to be convicted. Not that they're more likely to offend.

And the conclusion of this study says this.

Your government needs to publicly release those figures and they won’t. Probably because it looks bad for them. I’m sure they have collected those figures, if it helped their case they’d release them …

In any case, we know that ‘certain ethnicities’ are more likely to be arrested and convicted because they are more likely to commit those crimes in the first place. We could speculate on the reasons, but we cannot change those facts.

Trying to handwave it away by suggesting that they are being falsely accused (which is the only way this could work) is really awful. It sounds like you are protecting male perps over female victims.

According to this group, which did a FOI request, between 41-47% of sexual offenses in London were committed by foreign nationals (you can see the breakdown here: https://www.migrationcentral.co.uk/p/up-to-47-of-sexual-offence-charges ). The city is not 40% foreign national.

Keep in mind that that’s nationality, not ethnicity. An actual tracking of ethnicity would make it more stark.

The government has essentially asked local women and girls to take a huge risk for no practical benefit. Why?

Up to 47% of sexual offence charges in London last year were foreign nationals

In 2024 between 40% and 47% of those charged for sexual offences were foreign nationals - despite them accounting for just a quarter of the capital's population.

https://www.migrationcentral.co.uk/p/up-to-47-of-sexual-offence-charges

BundleBoogie · 31/10/2025 07:50

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 00:10

Is this the danish study that has 'mainly accounted for by racial bias' slashed across it?

And is the ONLY study that shows this?

It’s not a study, it’s a list of convictions for violent crime. And it’s replicated across other European countries with a high level of this sort of immigration.

Our government refuses to publish the numbers. We can only assume it’s because they tell a very bad story. Look at the rapes and murders by immigrants we have already experience, but to mention the terrorist murders by immigrants over the last 20 years.

BundleBoogie · 31/10/2025 07:59

Toastandbutterand · 31/10/2025 00:32

I think,.outsidenetty, that this is an important consideration but I think that it would just result in more nonsense on Mumsnet.

I agree that the political classes have shaped this. I probably think differently to you in the how but this is why I read these threads, to hear voices like yours.

It's just I'm also an idiot and start shouting at other people 🤣

But my idea is to read these threads and hear voices like yours. I'm ADHD and not very good at expressing myself, so apologies if I sound weird.

I think people that frame questions and facts in the way you do are the people who can promote understanding and compromise. I am all for that.

Interesting that you only attempt to be polite to the people that agree with you and you are actively seeking out these voices because they agree with you.

I think they call that confirmation bias. Your dismissal of actual crime stats as being down to racism means that you will not be able to understand the genuine concerns and frustration experienced by many of us.

In dismissing our reasonable concerns, you will increase your own stress levels as you will see changes to public discourse that you don’t like - we are going to discuss this more and more. Maybe take some time out and read up on this.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.