Sick of the lie 'It's just illegal immigrants people don't like.'

[Slightyamusedandsilly]

This is just not true.

Reform, the flag flyers and protesters are racists. All of this 'It's just the illegals we want gone.' is a lie to excuse their racism.

@Dogsandhens You appear greatly confused. Please quote me having called anyone on this thread a racist. I did copy a quote from a different thread, which was racist, which you could use to help understand what racism is as you keep saying you are so confused.

I am talking generally about racism, because there’s been a surge of racist post on MN recently. So stop pearl clutching and looking for excuses to be offended.

I'm simply asking what is your definition of racism? And who a racist is? And you won't say. Why not?

If you're so concerned about controlling our borders why are you hyper focused on boat crossings, which isn't even where the majority of illegal migrants come from?

What is it specifically about those coming via boat that concerns you so much?

No you aren’t. You are accusing me of things I haven’t said, using inflammatory hyperbole and deflection. My definition of racism is discrimination against minority groups, including hate speech. Please consult a dictionary if you have anymore questions.

Now please provide evidence that I’ve been calling ‘everyone’ on this thread a racist, which is what you’ve been claiming.

I’ll wait.

Can you show where in my post I mention the word ‘boat’?

Do try reading what I actually wrote.

Not wound up at all, I just pity you I’m afraid.

You pity me for not being racist?

Okay 👍🏻 🤣

Hi, you sounds really concerned as we all are about how things are going in UK. Last year NET immigration fell by over 50%, the largest fall in record to 478,000. But that aside, there’s some really interesting research conducted by a writer, Guy Shrubsole into who owns land in England. 50% of land is owned by 25 families / organisations. And when it states land, this does include beautiful green land and farm land but also our town centres, high streets, industrial parks. When you walk into your town centre, usually the pavements and roads are owned and are the responsibility of the state, but often the land beneath, cafes, garages, shops isn’t - it’s private land. It’s not right that half of England’s land is owned by so few - land in UK is power, it’s a very valuable asset. 30% of English landowner is owned by the aristocracy, 18% by corporations, 17% by ogliarchs/ financiers, 17% - is unknown who owns the land. The royal family only own 1.4% of land. Homeowners only own 5%. Church, charities, national trust, public sector own the rest. It really doesn’t seem right that so much land and wealth is owned by so very few aristocrats, organisations and ogliarchs. This hoarding of land is contributing to inequality in our society - and also limiting the pleasure we all should have of being able to access the land that is beautiful. The money of the very very wealthy needs to a safe haven and English property and land is just that. We have plenty of space in England, and we must protect our environment - but we really do have ample room for everyone. Immigration I would suggest hasn’t anything to do with housing crisis, or cost of living crisis/ the economic depression we are in. The cause I would suggest is that money that was invested in our public infrastructure- homes, roads, schools, water, transport, hospitals has moved into the hands of private wealth, and isn’t being reinvested back into the economy. Businesses own our assets and money that should be reinvested is in the hands of shareholders, and this is causing wage depression. Immigration isn’t the cause or the reduction of immigration a solution. We need to take back control of our land, our assets, our nations wealth and put it back into the hands of people, workers, who generate that wealth. ❤️

That isn't the definition of racism though? A minority group could be disabled people?

It would.be helpful to clarify what you meant.

You said:

"My original post is an observation of the pattern of rhetoric I’ve seen on here recently, in terms of both racism denial and outright racism."

And

"If you don’t want to be called a racist, don’t be one"

But you won't explain what a racist is.

Obviously some people won't think they are being racist at all but instead have other concerns relating to immigration.

So your refusal to define what you mean means we are all a bit in the dark. And that racisim is merely a subjective opinion. Or simply a reflexive insult.

So if you're on mumsnet to persuade people of your point of your point of view then it's helpful to define terms. If you're just on mumsnet to be rude then crack on.

I pity your inability to comprehend or engage with any of the well-reasoned arguments on this thread as to the negative effects of immigration, and your inability do anything other than bleat ‘racist’ feebly. It’s quite sad.

I’m not on MN to spoon feed definitions of racism. Many of us are exhausted and demoralised from the abhorrent extreme views on here recently - there’s been an influx of racism, misogyny and bigotry. We have spent hours explaining to people why certain comments or beliefs are racist. Your pseudo ignorance is obvious, and I won’t be engaging with it.

You have been rude, disingenuous and dishonest - accusing me repeatedly of calling others racist, when then is not the case and you provide no evidence of such. The fact it bothers you so much that a person on the internet is anti-racism it very revealing. I won’t be engaging with you further.

They really don’t. Your world seems to consist of inherently bad people only existing in the UK, with every other country being a bastion of equality and humility. Who is deluded?

No that’s entirely your imagination.

Nothing you’ve said has discredited it.

🥱

I'm just asking you to explain what you mean and I've been using your own words? You've accused people of being racist on this thread. Now back it up.

If you can of course. If you can't then obviously I see why you are no longer engaging.

Show proof that I’ve called anyone racist on this thread. You keep mindlessly bleating this.

There are no official figures but it's estimated that fewer than 1% of the UK population wear a burqa.

100%. Everytime I have tried to engage with Reform supporters it becomes clear that for a large % the issue is almost all immigrants and non-white Britons (who they often conflate with immigrants) and all Muslims.

Hi. I hear you sound really concerned and also frightened. Which is an awful feeling to have. We are an international country and obviously have deep connections to even now, the 56 commonwealth countries our King governs, across Asia, Africa, etc. Being British can mean we have families, 3,4,5th Generation, who lived in a commonwealth or former British colonial country. So us Brits are a real melting pot of ethnicities and cultures which is really lovely. one other thing that I find useful to know, is that we have a system in place that you can’t apply for asylum until we are in Uk - you can’t apply from overseas. Which I have to say seems a bit mad. We also are proud that after WWII we along with many other countries said never again and signed the UN 1951 constitution which rules that however a person arrives into a country signed up, is legal when claiming asylum. I’m an EU (Irish) citizen so god forbid if someone like Putin invaded UK and all our homes banks etc were destroyed - if I and my family were able to find our way to European shores we are citizens. UK folk would need to claim asylum as obviously now are not EU citizens. I understand men coming to countries first too. To set up a home to find secure space before kids and partners follow. We also last year had the lowest amount of NET migration (478k) the biggest drop in record too. Hope you are okay ❤️

There is a reason why UK is so popular and has been regarded highly, the culture I grew up with had been about tolerance, pet friendly, live and let live, family first, queue and wait patiently, consider your neighbours, it is difficult to describe or name.

Our culture is NOT about covering females from the male gaze and generally treating them as property to be used and abused at will, marrying of first cousins, subscribing to a single religious ideology and treating every other religion as the enemy to be eliminated. I want no part of that in my country, if I change my mind I will move to Afghanistan.

I've literally listed your own words saying it

"My original post is an observation of the pattern of rhetoric I’ve seen on here recently, in terms of both racism denial and outright racism."

And

"If you don’t want to be called a racist, don’t be one"

And I see there's another beaut. Just above here you've said to @Uggbootsforever

"You are an apologist and defender of men who are racist and misogynistic. I’ve seen your posts on other threads. You are lower than pond life."

(That's nice by the way.)

All I'm asking is please can you define racist and also cite what things that have been said that are racist. Honestly I'm not trying to be difficult. I just think in 2025 it's so useful to know we are all using words that we all know the meaning of. That's all.

With you on this OP, but I do think a lot of folk genuinely think they aren’t racist because they’re quite easily led and just think they’re being patriotic or some bollocks. I don’t think any of them have spent any time doing any research, reading literature or talking to anyone who has come here from overseas. It’s easy to believe short and snappy stuff that Farage and co say when you don’t have the means or critical thinking to pick at it to see if it crumbles

When you call everyone who disagrees with you and has concerns about all types of immigration (legal and illegal) racist then you shut down conversation.

I have concerns over legal and illegal immigration.

I no longer give a crap if people call me racist. I'm not by any sane definition of the term, but instead people are using ideological definitions which are far too wide ranging and nothing to do with actual racism.

If you call everyone racist, or far right, how then do you really see those who are actually dangerous individuals who are out to hurt others?