to think we're all being manipulated

[newbluesofa]

I'm going to get flamed by reform voters here, and I think it'll come off as thinking I'm smarter than everyone but I genuinely don't, which is why I'm so confused by this.

To me, it is incredibly obvious that we are being completely manipulated by politicians and the media. They want us to blame immigrants and people who claim benefits for their failing to run the country properly. And it's worked.

I don't think we should have unregulated immigration, there are issues that need to be addressed. But there's a difference between sensibly discussing immigration from an economic point, and the nasty hate and vitriol that's everywhere now. It is what they WANT. As long as we're fighting amongst ourselves, no one is looking up at the people with the real power and money.

One example, newspapers describing immigrants as 'fighting age men'. 'Fighting' is not an age. Young men could also be fit, healthy, and able to work and contribute. They say 'fighting age' to scaremonger and promote anti immigrant rhetoric, and it works as people parrot the line.

It's always been the way that the ruling class look for ways to keep the masses infighting. Honestly I lose respect at anyone that falls for it. I don't get how it isn't so obvious to others, how can you not see you're being played?

This is actually my point, maybe i haven't made that clear?

My point is exactly that this is simple stuff, yet people seem to be falling for it.

BB:2016:Migrant crisis: Russia and Syria 'weaponising' migration

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/16/refugees-are-becoming-russias-weapon-of-choice-in-syria

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/02/putin-weaponizing-migrant-crisis-to-hurt-europe.html

Probably why they being fighting age is mentioned - ties into wider geo-poltical issues that have been being discussed in media for nearly a decade.

Maybe you need to visit Epping or somewhere that has migrant hotels?

My sister is in the Midlands, she says she can't even go into the town centre anymore as she doesn't feel safe.

I tried to book into the hotel where my wedding was - lovely posh hotel - guess what, no can do, it's now a migrant hotel.

OPEN YOUR EYES.

What s constructive contribution you made to the subject, you are so knowledgeable yourself having learned all this so many years ago, yet all you could offer to the discussion was to sneer at the OP. 🙄🙄

Look at Brexit. It was supposed to be this big salvation — that never happened.

Farage said once Brexit happened he would step down. Job done.

Well look now, there is a new boogy man. A new thing to blame.

As of today, so far this year, 32,000 people have arrived in the UK, having crossed the channel on small boats.
That's a situation which cannot continue, genuinely - it's not an effective refugee/asylum policy. It's not humane and it's not stopping
This is going to require a very clear series of policies to manage effectively, otherwise Reform will continue to do well.

What the thriving tourist destinations or the rich Middle East that English people are running to?

The Muslims rising up?! Wtf are you talking about.

They are called fighting age males, because they ARE. There are hardly any women or children. Surely if they were fleeing a dangerous country they wouldn't leave the most vulnerable behind? Would your husband leave you behind?

They are most as risk of being recuited into armies/militia and gangs when armed conflict breaks out but also the most able to survive migration ie young girls more likely to get traffiied to sex slavery than a young man but also the hardships involved in getting to europe and most able to make a go of it in new places and send money and help back.

Increasingly though whole families are trying - a mark of dsperation but young men get less sympathy as well being seen as less vunerable so focus on them drives right wing narrative of invasion.

Of course we are. To hide bigger issues they want hate directed at those who cant defend themselves, instead of the puppets at the top.

Like the Ants movie.

I didn't say rising up. I said becoming the majority and that's an entirely different thing.

You need to realise that one of the reasons you can’t get a doctor’s appointment or a dentists appointment is that these systems have been completely mismanaged over the last 14 years. Similarly schools, social housing etc etc- they have been fed into a weird market model which has meant they don’t serve us. Immigration is not the cause.

Exactly. The richest 50 families in this country have the same amount of wealth as the poorest 50%.
This is the real scandal. And what the richest, off shore dwelling, newspaper owners want to distract from by demonizing the poorest on zero hour contracts etc as lazy scroungers or some of the most vulnerable fleeing persecution for eg helping us in Afghanistan. We need to have a 2% wealth tax on billionaires. (They'd barely notice). Stop them off shoring to Jersey, Guernsey, Caymans etc to avoid paying their fair share.

💯 agree with you!! Just remember these vile, DM quoting reformers’ days are numbered and also very small.
personally, I’m more concerned (read worried) about the climate collapse and what sort of life are our children going to live.

Census data shows that the Muslim population of Britain is 6% that’s hardly about to be a majority!

Given she didn’t say ‘rising up’ it’s more your interpretation. The other part of your post, even if you’re choosing only some countries in this, is that something you’d like to see here?

not yet, but I believe as far as birth rate is concerned they are right up there. There is also a concern on voting patterns which could well reflect concerns about their country or origin rather than the well being of the UK.

The Sun backed Labour at the last GE. I think they’ve gone off Starmer and co by now though.

The Sun backed Labour at the last GE. I think they’ve gone off Starmer and co by now though.

Why do you think the majority of the reaction is the emotive language used by the tabloids rather than the vast numbers of undocumented men that we seem unable to stop entering our country largely coming from counties where rape of women is not illegal (or so they claim when caught)?

Some of these men are actual known terrorists who then go into commit rape and other crimes while here (a terrorist from Egypt was recently convicted of raping a woman in Hyde Park - why are you so happy to accept her as collateral damage?). Why do you think that is not another problem we are facing alongside all the other problems?

Why are there so many threads insisting that all we have to worry about is government corruption, pressure on the NHS, many black holes in our public finances and growing crime and terrorist thread? Mass immigration is not going to improve any of those issues.

Why is uncontrolled immigration not also a valid issue for people to be concerned about? Many reports from people in communities that are seriously and directly impacted by numbers of foreign men behaving in unacceptable ways - why do you have so much empathy for unknown foreign men and none for British people tho are suffering?

I’m so bored of people trying to shut the conversation down - you can’t make it go away.

Op, I totally agree. It’s classic divide and conquer stuff being supported by American and Russian money. The dumb racists are falling for it and we are all going to be shafted as a result. It’s embarrassing.

I think there’s a huge amount of psy-ops on all the sites too. No doubt, after Brexit, the Russians are seeing how easy it is to manipulate a thick population. Then you’ve got the media licking their lips at all the wonderful click bait headlines that Farage and his ilk generate (second hand Trumpisms). “They’re eating our pets” and “They’re eating our swans.”

Oh and I see that Andrea Jenkyns is now (contrary to NHS advice) taking up the lead on the paracetamol causing autism nonsense. The Russians will never need to invade us when they can cheaply help us to destroy ourselves. Thank god my family have Irish passports ☹️

So you think adding millions to the population will help? Or not?

Second generation immigrants, including those of Muslim extraction, tend to realign to the national average. The worrying about being "outbred" is unjustified. It's also a very old racist trope that has been targeted at all sorts of different groups over the last few centuries. None of whom have outbred us and seized control.

I'm curious as to where that paper has come from, and who wrote it.

The point about returning them to the first EU country is also interesting. Let Greece deal with it. Let someone else deal with it. I think we did the EU a favour by leaving. It's forced us to actually think about the issue for a start. We were the spoilt child of the EU - no we don't want to be part of the euro, no to Schengen. It was out of balance. Let's send them back to first country and not think about it. Don't you think that's wrong?

How about working to stop the wars that are making people come here. Because whatever you may believe, anyone who works with the people knows that it is extremely difficult not to mention costly. It has to be paid for. That's the reality. The money we are borrowing. It's extraordinary.

I don't know what the answer is. It's very complex.

I also live in the midlands. I don't feel safe in my local town but it's not because of immigrants. It's I suspect due to poverty and a general breakdown of society which I've argued in a pp is the wider issue here.

What specifically makes your sister feel unsafe? Do these asylum seekers hang around the streets threatening people? Is there any objective evidence that crime rates have increased? Again I'm genuinely curious. If crime rates are increasing and people are genuinely increasing then I agree that this is an issue. However if you think there's just too many brown people in your town then that's not a political problem it's a racism problem.