to think we're all being manipulated

[newbluesofa]

I'm going to get flamed by reform voters here, and I think it'll come off as thinking I'm smarter than everyone but I genuinely don't, which is why I'm so confused by this.

To me, it is incredibly obvious that we are being completely manipulated by politicians and the media. They want us to blame immigrants and people who claim benefits for their failing to run the country properly. And it's worked.

I don't think we should have unregulated immigration, there are issues that need to be addressed. But there's a difference between sensibly discussing immigration from an economic point, and the nasty hate and vitriol that's everywhere now. It is what they WANT. As long as we're fighting amongst ourselves, no one is looking up at the people with the real power and money.

One example, newspapers describing immigrants as 'fighting age men'. 'Fighting' is not an age. Young men could also be fit, healthy, and able to work and contribute. They say 'fighting age' to scaremonger and promote anti immigrant rhetoric, and it works as people parrot the line.

It's always been the way that the ruling class look for ways to keep the masses infighting. Honestly I lose respect at anyone that falls for it. I don't get how it isn't so obvious to others, how can you not see you're being played?

It’s looking likely a reform government. You might all feel that’s exactly what I would support but I certainly do not. I am personally affronted by some of their policies, my dearest and oldest friends and family are not British nationals.

However, we are fast approaching a point of no return. I can see it as clear as day. Unlike op I can see the impact of mass migration, and the real anger that is now rising to the surface. I agree with her that it’s becoming harder to discuss the subject mainly because the left consistently silence, shame and shut the conversation down or scream racist. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most people are trying to PRESERVE our way of life and multiculturalism, not erase it.

Yes, it's completely obvious. People are falling down so many rabbit holes. All the tech bros have created algorithms that are making people basically go insane. A lot of the stuff people spout about immigration make them sound thick as pigshit. How can they not know they are being played. I live in a different country to Britain. I am an immigrant here. There are lots of us immigrants. I volunteer at a local playgroup. All the people who volunteer are immigrants. I've claimed maternity pay so I am taking benefits. That's just how the world works. People move from country to country. It's fucking 2025. People who think Britain is so special and everyone just wants to go there are delusional. People move countries. Get over it!

Reform got as many MPs as Green. Do you think Greens are likely to get in soon. Look at the statistics instead of spouting shit you've heard. Our voting system would make it impossible for any small party to get in.

All we bloody hear on the media is farage and what reform are up to, and about the flag worshippers.

The discussion is constant and widely broadcast and their supporters aren’t shy on tv, on social media down the local pub etc. what is this daft claim that the left are trying to silence everyone? We are allowed to correct lies and false statistics and speak OUR opinion. Or is “free speech” only for the ones against immigration?

And yeah of course many people are shouting racist because there’s so much racism involved.

I’m tired of the racists getting angry at being called what they are when we pushback at the misinformation and call it out for what it is.

Honestly it’s like they are insulted to be called racist but not appalled at the huge amounts of hate and racism in their ranks?

An Asian woman was allegedly raped by racists recently, a tween Asian kid was shot by a teen with an air gun in Bristol. Some young Indian kids were assaulted in Ireland somewhere recently. Lots of less publicised instances of hate crime I see being shared too on social media and by people I know even.

There was a woman on here a few weeks ago started a thread claiming her MiL screamed at the OPs Asian GP in a carpark to go back to her own country and she was now too embarrassed to see her again.

What happened to protect “are” kids and women ? Or did they just mean white kids and women ? (Course they did!) and even then thats not genuine or they’d be focusing on the vast majority of CSA that comes from family or known adults ie. People of their own ethnicity. And focusing on the fact a huge amount of the August 2024 rioters had DV convictions lol

@Hedgehogbrownhave a look at MRP it’s not a rabbit hole / algorithm etc, it’s a substantial poll that all sides rate.

So what should happen then @Nestingbirds ?

You are clear you don't support the left or Reform. What do you want to happen and who will you vote for that you believe will carry that out?

Oh and another one I hadn’t even heard of until a few minutes ago : https://www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/nmc-condemns-disgraceful-alleged-racist-attack-on-nhs-nurse/

More great protection of women eh? Racially abusing and intimidating a female nurse.

So nah no apology from me for being disgusted with this lot who are either actively harassing immigrants/non-white people or turning a blind eye.

Were this a POC couple harassing a white nurse, it would be on every reform supporters social media page.

You can’t gaslight us that the majority are reasonable people when we see so much of this rhetoric and behaviour. They keep showing their complete disregard for minority women and children. Vile.

Attacking anyone for their race is abhorrent. However, I’ll take the NMC account with a pinch of salt. They are extremely selective which racial attacks they have an issue with and are clearly politically motivated.

This long standing nurse was racially abused by a male patient but the NMC are investigating HER because she referred to that male paedophile patient as ‘he’. The NMC and hospital refuse to investigate the racial abuse.

From the article:
While speaking to a doctor outside the patient’s room about catheter removal, Melle referred to the patient as “he” and “Mr” in a clinical context. Overhearing this, the patient became aggressive. He verbally abused Melle with racist slurs, calling her the N-word multiple times, and physically lunged at her while restrained.

sex-matters.org/case-briefings/jennifer-melle-v-epsom-and-st-helier-university-hospitals-nhs-trust/

The relevance is this. Why are they not fighting for their country against the regime that is supposedly oppressing them?

Like much of the country I am now politically homeless like my friends that used to support Labour, but are appalled at the incompetence of this government.

We will abstain almost certainly - if you imagine that most reasonable, educated middle of the road electorate will feel like us - then all you are left with are the extremes at both ends of the spectrum.

In that scenario reform will win, and our country will have much safer border control, and controlled immigration at long last, but at what cost?

I can’t see a party that is measured, competent and able to address the immigration issues robustly and fearlessly - therefore protecting our quality of life without harming the wonderful variety of people that already live here peacefully, and are deeply welcome in my view to stay indefinitely. It’s all too extreme.

This popped up on my feed this morning - it’s part of why there is a huge and growing divide:

https://www.common-wealth.org/interactive/who-owns-britain/cradle-to-grave

It sounds like you just want everything to be run by the state. Who is going to pay for it?

Who pays for those services now? And who paid for them before Thatcher privatised them all?

We can’t afford them now. It’s as simple as that.

We didn’t offer state paid childcare in the 1980s - we didn’t offer free sex change to adults and the huge variety of healthcare from the NHS. We didn’t have nearly 70 million people to support.

We can’t go back in time. We will never ever be able to afford your socialist dream. If you can outline how it would be paid for - then you garner more respect - but as it’s mathematically impossible, it just sounds ludicrous. We are in eye watering debt!!!!! With rising borrowing costs - this would see us entirely bankrupt over night.

To not vote is to vote for whoever gets in.

For that reason I believe that most reasonable, educated middle of the road electorate people will vote. They will choose the party that most closely aligns to their views across a broad range of subjects. Most people do not vote on a single issue like immigration. They take into account everything from tax to education to the environment around them.

The electorate also have a few more years to see what Labour can achieve and to evaluate how the other parties and their MPs perform and develop in the meantime.

It's very hard to understand how someone with the very strong views you have expressed on this thread can possibly consider not voting.

You have three years now to campaign, protest, write to your MP, join a party and work from the inside in order to influence the change you seek.

If someone doesn't vote they can't complain about 'what comes next' because when their one real chance to stand up and be counted (a chance that people fought and died for) came along they just sat back and allowed it to happen.

I’m not sure we will stay in this country. We have so many international options. Labour do not have the talent or the ability to run this country well. Life is too short to waste decades waiting for a decent political party to save us from obscurity. Reform will be next, I am almost certain of it.

@Nestingbirds That throws a very peculiar light on the opinons you have posted on this thread. Want to keep immigrants out, want to keep it like the 1970s then 'nah, I'm emigrating'.

We have no choice. We can’t live without water, electricity, gas, public transport - none of those things should involve profit.

We can afford it. It's that successive governments have chosen not to in a short term decision to keep taxes low in order to win votes.

If we want a better society then we have to put our hands in our pockets and stop whinging when governments make savings on things like winter fuel allowance for the pensioners who don't need it.

Where have I ever said I want to keep immigrants out? How brash of you to make things up. I actually said we can’t keep accepting new arrivals, that we have thousands in bedsits and nowhere to put them. We simply do not have any more room. For heavens sake at least read my posts.

I have always found NZ to be an appealing option.

We haven’t stopped ‘putting our hands in our pockets’ and nothing has improved. Labour putting up taxes is sure as hell going to see off the remaining high value professionals that pay for everything here.

Taxes haven’t been raised. 🤷‍♀️

The poorest pay a higher proportion of their income in tax than the richest.

Nestingbirds
I have always found NZ to be an appealing option.

So you want to be an immigrant in another country and become an aging burden on their health system instead of this one (if you were adult in the 1970s you have to be at or approaching retirement age now). Go for it!