to think we're all being manipulated

[newbluesofa]

I'm going to get flamed by reform voters here, and I think it'll come off as thinking I'm smarter than everyone but I genuinely don't, which is why I'm so confused by this.

To me, it is incredibly obvious that we are being completely manipulated by politicians and the media. They want us to blame immigrants and people who claim benefits for their failing to run the country properly. And it's worked.

I don't think we should have unregulated immigration, there are issues that need to be addressed. But there's a difference between sensibly discussing immigration from an economic point, and the nasty hate and vitriol that's everywhere now. It is what they WANT. As long as we're fighting amongst ourselves, no one is looking up at the people with the real power and money.

One example, newspapers describing immigrants as 'fighting age men'. 'Fighting' is not an age. Young men could also be fit, healthy, and able to work and contribute. They say 'fighting age' to scaremonger and promote anti immigrant rhetoric, and it works as people parrot the line.

It's always been the way that the ruling class look for ways to keep the masses infighting. Honestly I lose respect at anyone that falls for it. I don't get how it isn't so obvious to others, how can you not see you're being played?

Much lolz.
lets ignore the real issues and complain about invisible rich people manipulating us, instead!

Remember all those stories about Polish people eating Queen's swans from the lake? That's what made Brexit happen. Some very rich people made a lot of money from it. This hatred campain is just another scam for the rich to become even richer and the masses are cought up in it and swallow it like candies.

“I disagree with your second point however. An aversion to Britain being changed by other cultures is just rooted in xenophobia.“

Someone else said this on another thread. It's not the case.
I am not apologising for liking my country and my culture as it is this, with its (comparative) freedoms, tolerance and humour.
I welcome immigrants who want to come here to integrate into our way of life, work and enrich our culture.
I don't want those who want to bring with them a criminal or gang subculture, who have medieval attitudes towards women and children, or who want to have separate legal systems.
That is not xenophobia.
And before you assume that I am only informed by biased media, please understand that I worked as a social worker for nearly forty years in a large town with a multi ethnic population, and I have seen the best and the worst.

I agree we are being manipulated.

The fight age young men was a thing though - mainly as Russia did apparently use the proxy arm combat people to destabilized central africa countires one after another and other parts of the world and young men did emmigrate to europe to get the hell away from being recruited and killed in the wars.

I think UN was doing reports on it. It could have been spun more postively but it wasn't.

The immigrant situation though is naunced though. It's partly because servcies are stretched so whether it's from another country or another area - new housing estates - being get worried they'd get streched further not unreasonably - but that there is awarness that we do need some immigration in some areas but in others it was driving wages down.

I was surpsied last year when BBC vox pop of public was shown to more nuanced than the reporting had has - then some of the repoting shifted. I think its's shifted back to if you dislike immigration at current levels you're right wing racists nut job now though.

I do think living standards falling is main issue and right are blaming immigrations but honestly I don't think left have helped there either - having concerns dismissed don't tend to make them go away but fester.

.

"They don't know that we know they know we know"

Sorry couldnt resist!!

But OP, you answered your own question

As long as we're fighting amongst ourselves, no one is looking up at the people with the real power and money.

of course we’re being manipulated. It has always been that way.

However, I’m not sure a sensible discussion on migration is possible when left-wingers try to stop discussion by calling you a bigot.

Hit the nail on the head. Honestly couldn't have said it better myself

Some are also keen the issue isn’t discussed. There’s pushes from both sides on this.

Not here.

Yep

Its surprising that there are threads here about eating disorders, feminism etc where people talk about the effect algorithms, YouTube rabbit holes, discussion forums can have on leading young (but not only young) people down dangerous paths leading to eating disorders, extreme mysogyny, body dismorphia etc. But then become extremely resistant to the idea they could be affected too/think they are being called stupid. It's like advertising. Everyone's affected by advertising that's the point.

I think any algorithm designed to push engagement is always going to push decisive content. Because strong emotions like anger, hate etc keep people's attention focused and they want people to stay on their site as long as possible. But I think something more than that is also happening. I think certain viewpoints are being pushed. All you can do is limit your time spent on social media which orders posts etc by algorithms. That includes YouTube/tiktok. And I guess be aware your emotions are always being played with.

Are we being manipulated by people who would like to see us fighting each other asks the OP who started another divisive thread.

Perhaps you could stop being part of the problem by assuming it's only other people who are being manipulated and ask yourself if you are also susceptible to narratives that are not wholly accurate.

There is manipulation by the left as much as from the right. Labour have spent 14 months gaslighting everyone that everything's fine, see their adverts (propoganda) on Facebook/X etc all saying "nothing to see here".

No, you are not, genuinely or other wise, smarter than everyone/anyone else op. Of all the assumptions pp are likely to make about you on this thread being smart is not likely to be one of them. It’s like watching far left bingo today.

Denying the statistical fact that tens of millions have indeed arrived here in the last decade or two, as being completely irrelevant sounds like insanity to me.

A requirement for you to acquire your own tin hat as a conspiracy theorist even.

To not even take a cursory glance at the economic impact, the consequences to housing and hospitals, schools, sewer systems, prisons, social care etc and the likely future impact to your children. It hasn’t even occurred to little old smarty pants, she is is too busy with her amateur arm chair psychology to actually look outside, much less step outside of her own bubble for a few minutes and see what’s actually happening on the ground.

On the ground people don’t need ‘the media’ to tell them it’s a problem, that the infrastructure is collapsing all around them, not due to a lack of investment (we could not throw more money at the NHS) but due to the obscene volume that it was never designed to manage.

Every system designed to uphold our society was modelled on a projection, with plenty of scope for movement either way, no one expected those models to be blown to pieces.

Op, you can come back to us in five years with a genuine apology. It is the tin eared far lefties like you that will finish this country off for good.

My DH says the same as you, OP.

He hates Farage and how we're all in the mess we're in because of Brexit etc. He's always saying if Reform get in, the country's on its way to a fascist state. 😳😞

'Of course we're being manipulated!'

'But it's the leftists that are the problem'

Do you not see the irony?

I think this is true, but there is also a slippery slope from this thinking into paranoia and conspiracies. I know a couple of people who have been sucked in due to current events, but it was probably originally triggered five years ago. It’s quite easy to think of the Big Bad Government lying to us about everything, and propaganda has been part of politics since before newspapers were invented, but it’s really just fairly normal people running things farcically like in The Thick of It

I have worked for a few different national newspapers. Firstly, each media outlet has a political alignment. People choose the media that aligns with their political views. Everyone knows the telegraph, daily mail, sun are right wing papers. Everyone knows the guardian is left wing.
Second, the poeple that work there do not all hold the same views. In fact many actively oppose views and discuss them openly in the office. I worked for a very right wing paper and loads of people put EU flags up on their desk during the brexit referendum and were outraged by it even though the paper itself was putting out opposing views.
Third, the people that work there are doing a job to get as many people to consume their product as possible, clicks, shares, views, traffic to website, sales are all measured. Huge screens showing numbers of clicks per articles are shown across the offices. Regardless of a persons persons political views, thry are going to create content that makes people click. Strong views do this
Fourth, papers wont change their political alignment, they are owned by billionaires, but not run by them. They have an audience to serve and if their audience is right wing or left wing that is who they will write for. The view will not be balanced. The product is a 'right wing news outlet'and that is the product they create.
Lastly, news and media are not public services. They are businesses created to make money. Of course they are biased, self gaining and self serving. If you blindly consume media without thinking this is the case then more fool you.

Yep

Also known as the "dead cat" strategy. In the middle of a crisis slam a dead cat on the table. Everyone has to deal with the stink while the original problem is diminished.

Really hoping Andy Burnham is going to make a move into mainstream politics, in my opinion he would make a great leader of the Labour party.

Its not about not discussing the issues themselves. Its about how people are being fed (and that's the right word. We are passive receivers of content on a lot of sites) certain narratives. I actually think they make it harder to discuss the real issues in a serious way because its like floating on an external sea of different sorts of outrage. Mens sexual violence against women is a serious issue and the very start of the Metoo movement was about serious issues and women were sharing their experiences in good faith..it was swelled by social media into a vast hysterical narrative (most women talking about it weren't hysterical btw. It's the actual internet that's hysterical). There was a backlash that was also swelled into something monsterous by social media and nothing was done.

There were real concerns around the level of migration in Springfield Ohio. People who understood why and agreed with the reasons migration there had increased also had nuanced reasons for worrying certain aspects and not much of a platform for sharing. JD Vance made sure it was impossible to talk about those actual.issues by talking about "Dogs and Cats". He wasn't drawing attention to local issues. He was sucking all the oxygen out of the debate. And I think it was a deliberate strategy. And I think it's is one that Dominic Cummings understands well.

My DH says the same as you, too.

He also says a colleague likes to say "Never underestimate the power of stupid people" who will blindly vote as sheeple.

Oops clicked YABU by mistake.

I think most of us will be indebted already or at some point soon to "immigrants", non- nationals, whatever the right term is, who work for us in the NHS. And of course other areas of our lives.

Not saying it isn't having serious affects on housing etc, just that we're turning a blind eye to how they help the economy and other benefits.

I was going to post that exact cartoon.

As my DH says, where is all the money?