to think we're all being manipulated

[newbluesofa]

I'm going to get flamed by reform voters here, and I think it'll come off as thinking I'm smarter than everyone but I genuinely don't, which is why I'm so confused by this.

To me, it is incredibly obvious that we are being completely manipulated by politicians and the media. They want us to blame immigrants and people who claim benefits for their failing to run the country properly. And it's worked.

I don't think we should have unregulated immigration, there are issues that need to be addressed. But there's a difference between sensibly discussing immigration from an economic point, and the nasty hate and vitriol that's everywhere now. It is what they WANT. As long as we're fighting amongst ourselves, no one is looking up at the people with the real power and money.

One example, newspapers describing immigrants as 'fighting age men'. 'Fighting' is not an age. Young men could also be fit, healthy, and able to work and contribute. They say 'fighting age' to scaremonger and promote anti immigrant rhetoric, and it works as people parrot the line.

It's always been the way that the ruling class look for ways to keep the masses infighting. Honestly I lose respect at anyone that falls for it. I don't get how it isn't so obvious to others, how can you not see you're being played?

Scapegoating is a strategy as old as time - choose an "outsider" group, other them, blame them, distract from home grown/ much more complex and deep seated problems that are infinitely harder to solve.

It's not new.

Sometimes internal enemies are scapegoated, sometimes a war or cold war does the trick... Sometimes both... Thatcher did it with the Falklands war. Smaller groups like a sports team or company sometimes do it by scapegoating an individual or small group if things are going to pot, and countries have always done it by picking a group of people who the majority can see as outsiders- foreigners, unemployed people, "benefit cheats", a certain religion...

Most of us know it's a phenomenon

Thank goodness you've said this so I don't have to try to promote Gary :)

Trouble is, there must be so much going on behind the scenes that makes it very difficult for even well-intentioned politicians to do anything. The ones who aren't incentivised by money would surely be threatened in some way.

Thanks for sharing this @AlorsTimeForWine, really interesting.

I agree very strongly with your opening post, @newbluesofa… and that’s not because I think I’m a genius or have any insight beyond anyone else, it’s just seems very obvious to me what they’re doing and why they’re doing it.

When I talk about Metoo by the way Its not because I have a problem with the intention. I mean the main problem with it was that no real change happened. At all. And that's not the fault of the people sharing stories, or trying to get justice for very horrible crimes against them. It's just that social media gives the impression it's empowering people to share their own stories and have a voice but really it's forcing it's own voice into other people's heads. Like some Eldritch monster.

I am wondering how any of this serves Starmer and his broken administration given he is likely to be kicked out soon?

I am wondering how the impending recession serves ‘big business’ given it’s likely to ruin them?

I am wondering how this serves the lefties who think they can tax ‘the rich’ to oblivion if the rich are long gone because of this unfolding nightmare?

I am wondering how this serves the civil service given their jobs depend on enough revenue to pay for their fat salaries?

I am wondering how this will even serve Reform given they will be tasked with the Labour clean up most likely?

The only possible beneficiary that I can genuinely see is the Russia/China axis.

I am sure they are enjoying this spectacle. Given they supported Labour and campaigned heavily in their favour, predicting correctly they would be a weak and ineffectual government. I would say they have probably concluded it was money well spent.

There is more than one way to win a Cold War.

YANBU op. I completely agree with you.
I think many peoples views’ on the issues you mention are the height of absolute ignorance - all I can think is our education system has seriously failed! They do not understand the foundations of a democracy and the huge huge advantage in social cohesion. I wish sociology and politics were compulsory subjects in schools because most people have zero understanding of how the world works; as we live in it today, and also lessons learnt & societal evolutions that have occurred in history.

Reform (as UKIP, obviously) are effectively the architects of the small boats crisis. It’s now a true crisis and that’s largely because of Brexit. Not only that, it’s an incredibly predictable consequence of Brexit, and was discussed extensively at the time of the referendum.

Yet now Reform are somehow managing to convince people that they’re the solution to the problem. A problem with their fingerprints all over it.

I think that more than anything illustrates the extent to which the voting population are being played.

The Left can't meme though.

Why did we have until recently the highest number of asylum claims in 2002/3 if it was only Brexit? And why do countries still in the EU have the same issues with migration and political pressure as we do?

I love your typo! 🤣
Sorry, I do know what you mean, but it did make me laugh 😂

Yes we're all being manipulated!

I think you're right to an extent, OP, but the opposition isn't helping itself. I've muted three people this past week who would claim to be progressive left wingers and have been posting stuff in absolute sheer contempt of what they imagine is the sole demographic of people with concerns about immigration. Crap AI images of fat, red-faced, badly dressed, stupid-looking people waving flags and neglecting their equally fat and unhealthy children who are being left to gorge on fast food. Perhaps I'm showing my own prejudices in imagining that these characters aren't supposed to represent intelligent, middle class graduates? Either way, this isn't helping.

You know that it's all absolutely manipulative BS because no one actually proposes policies that reduces the need for immigration.

That would involve a massive investment in education, especially EYFS/ KS1 to ensure every child in this county reached their full potential. Then you'd match up training opportunities with skills shortages etc. You'd have programs that targeted young teens to put them on an excellent career path.

But no one is actually looking to "solve" the problem; they just want to gain political traction from it.

I never said I think I'm starter than other people? What I actually said was I'm worried it will seem like I think I'm smarter than everyone else. Which I don't.

I also didn't dismiss the issues, I never said the economic impact is irrelevant, I specifically said that there are issues that need to be addressed.

I'll stop here as continuing seems futile but do you not see how you haven't actually comprehended what I really said?

Does this happen, though? Serious question.

As far as I can see, public discourse has been increasingly dominated by immigration for over a decade. We spent hundreds of billions of pounds on Brexit and tipped the country’s economic security and future down the drain largely because of the public’s feelings about immigration. Our leftwing Prime Minister gave a speech a few weeks ago about us becoming an ‘island of strangers’.

I’m just not sure that this narrative about left-wingers stifling debate by yelling ‘bigot’ is true. If anything, I think the converse is true - we’ve got ourselves in an absolute hole by overindulging racists.

By fighting age men, they just mean that - of an age to join an army.
I do agree with your main points, though OP , these are worrying times and strategies to deal with migration/asylum seekers/refugees is massive problem throughout Europe. There needs to be an intelligent and humane solution - and fairly quickly.
These anti migrant stories are multiplying by the day.

The party line isn't a physical rope that can be towed along 😄

The scene was set for this many years ago when those who believed that immigration numbers needed to be controlled for successful integration could not raise the issue without cries of "racist".

I tried to discuss this way back but you would think I was an axe murderer I got jumped on so fast. It didn't matter how much I said this is about assimilation and controlling the numbers and rate of immigration and not about race, religion or culture the response was "racist" from the unthinking. Because we could not have that conversation in an adult way years back we are now where we are.

Such a shame.

Far from being tin eared, I would suggest the OP is actively questioning and listening. You, and others up thread, seem to have ignored the fact that the OP have said quite clearly that mass unchecked immigration needs to be addressed. Quite why having a questioning attitude (healthy IMHO) and looking for nuance and what's not being addressed by those with agendas who run the media makes anyone responsible for finishing off the country is pretty baffling. I take it you feel happy to insult her based on the fact that she doesn't hold the same opinions as you?

Football ‘hooligans’ are to blame.
God, you should hear yourself.
It’s these kind of snobbish stereotypes that have got us into this mess.

Is it? Really? Why do you accept the idea that it has to be anyone against anyone else?

To me that mentality is the real problem, in whatever direction it is aimed.

I agree, and people can be sucked in to conspiracy theories from both the left and the right. Take the rise of antivaxxers, people are distrustful of government and people in power on both sides.

Many people have replied here saying, well how do you know YOU'RE not being manipulated, and I am, we all are to an extent, that's the function of the media. I'm just trying to be aware about playing into exactly what they want and creating division amongst ourselves when our efforts should be pointed up against these people from generational wealth, who have no real idea what life is like for most people and yet are running the country like bumbling idiots

I'm quite encouraged by the results of your poll, OP. More people agreeing with you than I expected, which is welcome.

At least on here that's fairly rare and even if you don't mute the posts you can scroll on by. The posts here are arranged in chronological order only. Whereas the more algorithm heavy discussion forums will make sure you see lots and lots of posts that are directly offensive to you. Alongside lots of posts that conform your world view. Just as I would think, if I based my worldview on social media, that all right wing voters have nothing but contempt for "soft liberal lefties". The level of hatred spouted by Trump and Vance. There are people like that in the UK (SYL) but most aren't. I know this because my mum voted for Brexit and she's lovely.

I’m not sure I understand your questions but there’s a detailed paper on the effect of Brexit on migration here.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2025/772910/EPRS_BRI(2025)772910_EN.pdf#page4

Basically, though, when the Dublin Regulation ceased to apply in the UK at the end of 2020, the UK could no longer return asylum seekers to the first EU country of arrival. Hence the huge increase in arrivals and applications.

I’m sure you already know that though and thought about it carefully before deciding how to vote in 2016.