to think we're all being manipulated

[newbluesofa]

I'm going to get flamed by reform voters here, and I think it'll come off as thinking I'm smarter than everyone but I genuinely don't, which is why I'm so confused by this.

To me, it is incredibly obvious that we are being completely manipulated by politicians and the media. They want us to blame immigrants and people who claim benefits for their failing to run the country properly. And it's worked.

I don't think we should have unregulated immigration, there are issues that need to be addressed. But there's a difference between sensibly discussing immigration from an economic point, and the nasty hate and vitriol that's everywhere now. It is what they WANT. As long as we're fighting amongst ourselves, no one is looking up at the people with the real power and money.

One example, newspapers describing immigrants as 'fighting age men'. 'Fighting' is not an age. Young men could also be fit, healthy, and able to work and contribute. They say 'fighting age' to scaremonger and promote anti immigrant rhetoric, and it works as people parrot the line.

It's always been the way that the ruling class look for ways to keep the masses infighting. Honestly I lose respect at anyone that falls for it. I don't get how it isn't so obvious to others, how can you not see you're being played?

Same. A few years ago I said we’d see increased in social and political strain due to the asylum system and immigration. JFC people were bad at hearing that.

And here we are with exactly that. I hope some political careers feel it. All the head in the sand and abuse.

As for manipulated everyone is trying to get us to listen, that includes the left for the op to repeat those lines.

The NHS is failing because successive politicians have pulled it apart over many years . In the process more and more of our taxes have gone into the pockets of private companies rather than directly delivering care .
The press don’t report on what has really happened leaving a bewildered and angry public to blame ‘ volume ‘ ( ie immigrants / older people ) as here because they haven’t paid attention to what’s happening / happened with policy over many years .

A read of the 2012 Health & Social Care act is pretty sobering.That piece of legislation completely dismantled the NHS behind the scenes .
Cameron sold off our blood plasma ( freely given by blood donors ) to an American company , Bain Capital , who further sold it on to a Chinese company . The NHS have to buy it back for use .
Farage is committed to abolishing the NHS . We will have an American style health system if Reform are elected .

Still so apt! https://pjhollis123.medium.com/careful-mate-that-foreigner-wants-your-cookie-aba1c536b0d8

They are both an issue for me at the minute.

Left is walking away from it's voted base or hasn't got answers when it gets power.

I really like Andy Burnham not keen on Stamer at all or his lack of progress but not sure up for another round of party infighting and musical chairs with PM.

I also think Farage would be a disatser but I think polls won't be reflective of any election outcomes. Conservative lost as much to Lib dems as they did to reform.

I think there are major issue than none of the polictical parties are willing to engage with or don't have answers to but aren't willing to say to electorate - and it's not just in UK it's most of the western world as far as I can see.

I tend to agree with Gary's Economics that right wing stoking anger and getting media attention to due billionare money as people feel thimngs getting worse and want some kind of change and they don't want it to be tax the rich or look at money flows. But I've not seeing the main stream left rise up and have polices I can get behind - I'm seeing just as much gaslighting and lies.

In fact increasing feel left and right labels in regards to the main parties are meaningless reclics of the past.

I voted Remain but take a look at numbers sent back under the Dublin agreement, they were very low and we took more than returned.

Also have a think about Germany, ROI and other EU countries who can still use it.

Have you noticed the problems they’re facing with the same issue?

Well yes I know what they mean but why is it relevant? Why say it? They're also of an age to be hard workers, or fathers. I'm saying they phrased it that was on purpose to associate them with violence

This cartoon again.

What a strangely familiar picture 😀

Unfortunately at the root of it is increasing poverty, increased cost of living and the majority of society feeling very dissatisfied. The only reasonable solution is for the extremely rich to share their wealth. They are too arrogant and selfish to admit this though and are very unlikely to do it in any meaningful way. If they were really paying attention in their history lessons though they should be just as terrified as we are as the end result is probably catastrophic for everyone.

If you look at history all 20th century fascist regimes have started in countries where the 'little guy' is in desperate and impoverished situations. Here's the other significant fact as well .... no fascist regime has ever been overturned without force. No reasonable government has been able to pacify them. Once they're in power it is too late. Also no fascist regime has existed in Europe during the time of modern technology, modern weapons and modern communication and America has never fallen to a fascist regime which would be a complete other kettle of fish. The immigration debate is the symptom not the disease and the end result is too horrifying to imagine.

I smiled at this too. Prison sentences for anyone whose hips tell an untruth.

But I agree with the OP, manipulation of the masses by the powerful elite is as big a problem now as it ever was.

I completely agree and worse still those who shut down debate to "protect" marginalised groups have actually made things worse for them. Anyone with a passing acquaintance with human nature could have predicted this outcome. Some of us were trying to warn about it more than ten years ago and today we have OP opening a thread with a statement about being flamed by Reform voters; Reform wouldn't even exist if people like OP had listened years ago.

I'm so fed up of hearing people complaining about the unintended consequences of their own actions whilst continuing to fuel the division they claim to be concerned about.

Don’t worry, you’re not coming across as smarter than anyone else.

Yes we have been manipulated for years, telling us immigration was a good thing. Telling us multiculturalism was an achievable and desirable goal. Ignoring the need for a cohesive society, one that shared ex a common culture, values, goals, beliefs and history.

The term “fighting age men”’has been used for a long time to describe men of s as m ag ex where the eg are generally physically fit enough to fight and is used to decide who should be conscripted - usually 18 to 40ish year old men.

And yes they should be in their own countries fighting to make it a decent place to live

The government could end mass immigration tomorrow if it really wanted to. We're an island in case anyone hadn't noticed. It's a distraction, suits the narrative.

I couldn't agree with you more OP.
To hear some people you'd think the disadvantage of the WC has only arrived with migrants, rather than being woven into our history forever.
Until less privileged people wake up to the real cause of their inequality, that they are poor because people making profit from them don't reward their labour adequately; that they are poorly housed because people are using the basic human need for housing to feather their own nests at the expense of those less fortunate; that their neighbourhoods are neglected, unsafe and unpleasant because they are not a priority for those with the power to improve them; nothing will change.
If somehow Reform have a magic solution to 'the boats' their supporters will very quickly discover this doesn't put an extra penny in their pockets or improve their lives at all. And in return for seeing fewer black and brown faces in their neighbourhoods they will be sacrificing things they may greatly need. Because they're not the ones with private health care or a cushion of wealth that means they'll never need the welfare state Reform seeks to dismantle.

Unfortunately from your post seems you are at the bottom of people capable of even a second of critical thinking.....therefore you are between the most deceived ones

Are you a man BTW and especially an asylum seeker

I think it's relevant because the idea is that they should fight Islamism, corruption, banditry, whatever and make their country better. I know it's not a complete solution, but it does hold validity.

Sadly, she's coming out as underperforming intellectually

If you think everyone posting on mumsnet is real you are definitely being manipulated.

A lot of it is to distract you from ridiculous levels of inequality and that we are still paying out £22 billion to support banks who caused the financial crisis https://www.ippr.org/media-office/thatcher-style-tax-on-bank-windfalls-could-raise-billions-for-public-services-says-ippr

I think this is true - my DS has been completely manipulated (he would disagree) by tiktok and instagram among others

To the people accusing OP of not being intelligent and not thinking critically... Can you provide any genuine evidence that our current net immigration is in any way detrimental to our economy or society? Can you name any way in which an immigrant has negatively impacted you personally or the neighbourhood you live in? I'm genuinely curious. I'll wait but given that I don't think even Nigel Farage has produced any such evidence I'm presuming I'll be waiting a while...

now updated That foreigner wants your cookie! : r/antiwork

@newbluesofa
How old are you OP?
You sound so immature.
I mean I learnt all about what you're saying in my Sociology lessons at A level college, aged 17.
I'm 48 now.
You're not saying anything new or groundbreaking. You're saying it as though you've cracked what's really going on.
It's hilarious, your naivety!
Everyone knows all this full well.

but that’s why we have a lot of the issues - surely you can see that. Why do you think house prices are so high? who profits from all the extra money we pay in mortgages and rent? work it through and you will see this is a massive issue for us normal people

Whichever way you slice it, mass immigration, via our beaches, of undocumented males is a HUGE problem.

1000 arrive every day - in a mere 18 months that's the entire population of Manchester. And it's been going on for longer than that, and will continue to, if nothing is done.

It doesn't matter whether your politics are left or right, this would not be sustainable if they were legal migrants, but these men are undocumented and come from countries where rape isn't even a crime. Do I want those men living near me? Fuck no. Who would?

I couldn't rock up at Heathrow and get into my own country without a passport - but these men get in. Why? Why isn't the Navy and the Army on the beach?

They are called fighting age males, because they ARE. There are hardly any women or children. Surely if they were fleeing a dangerous country they wouldn't leave the most vulnerable behind? Would your husband leave you behind?

I think that we have our own 9/11 coming to be honest.

Even if that's not the case, aren't you concerned about what this is costing the UK tax payer? Many people can't even get a fucking doctors appointment in a timely manner - how is adding MILLIONS of people going to make this better? It won't, it will only get worse and worse.

And now we hear that people who are deported because they have committed a serious crime, like rape or murder, are being given £2000 each to help them to settle back in their own country. Who signed that little nugget off?

Don't even get me started on our veterans sleeping rough.

You need to find your anger Op. You are literally sleep walking into the destruction of your own Country and culture.

This is not "new news" - media and politicians always have had "an angle" on the news and try to influence how you think. The saying used to be "don't believe everything you read in the papers". The Mirror wants you to vote Labour; The Sun wants you to vote Conservative etc etc

So I clicked YABU not because you're wrong as such, but because this is something I thought we all knew since time began?