It’s not suddenly all the kids, it’s the new teacher.

[jollyoldjo]

DD has just gone into year 4 and has a new teacher.

They had the same teacher for the last 2 years and she was very nice and also had lovely teachers before her.

We are still in the first month of a new year with the new teacher who’s new to the school and quite young so at a guess newly qualified and suddenly all of the children are misbehaving but were fine with other teachers, she keeps them back 15 minutes every day for poor behaviour, this is decided on the day without notice but it’s been every day and that’s the whole class.

A more experienced teacher is taking the class for a week next week to sort out the behaviour.

I regularly help out on school trips and they’re not bad kids and they haven’t all suddenly developed behavioural issues they just have no respect for this particular teacher.
AIBU to think she has no control over the class and it seems because she isn’t coping she’s retaliating against the children by being an absolute jobs worth?

We’ve had multiple letters out explaining they’ve all missed breaks and not done PE etc because of poor behaviour and by keeping them an extra 15 minutes she is making herself very unpopular by leaving parents standing outside in the empty playground while she punishes the children and parents.
I have a child in the same school in year 6 who has walked home and got changed while I’m still waiting in the playground for dd to come out at supposedly the same finish time, we’ve never had this before.
Other children and their siblings have places to be after school.

AIBU to think if as early as September, 30 kids and their parents are hoping they don’t have this teacher again next year then it’s not the kids it’s the teacher?

YANBU OP - we had this when ads was in year 3. DS actually escaped her radar to be honest but she was vile to a lot of children, mostly boys. These are children I know well and she was stopping them
having break, keeping them behind. Loads of parents complained.

I was also evident in parents evening - DS is very bright and confident - she barely said anything to me. Just gave me a brief overview - mentioned he wasn’t shy. Then sent me on my way. I was waiting for a friend and the way she spoke to the parents of those she disliked was night and day - talked for ages and had lists. It was like if she had nothing negative to say she wasn’t interested. Bizarre

I’m not sure making them miss PE is legal. It’s a very important part of the curriculum-some children love it, some hate it, like any other subject. My daughter would have been delighted with this ‘punishment’.

You're being unreasonable. By your own admission the kids in this teachers class have no respect for her. Seems none of you parents like her and it's rubbed off on all your kids. Instead of going against her all of you parents need to teach your kids to respect their teacher. New teacher or not these kids have no right at all to be playing her up. In one reply you're saying it's not your kid that's the problem yet your original post indicates that NONE of the kids respect this teacher so that tells me your own kid is absolutely also part of the problem. These kids are what 8/9 they are more than old enough to know how to behave themselves in school

Well that's part of the problem.
Adults who don't respect the teachers transmit this to their kids, who then do not respect the teachers.

Every teacher has been young and inexperienced at some point. Pupils are like wolves, they smell the fear and act out accordingly.

The class is definitely misbehaving so all of the moaning parents would do better focus your efforts on backing up the teacher and sorting out your child's behaviour.

It’s no wonder they’re crying out for teachers with parents like you. It’s also no wonder there is no respect for the teacher from the children. Do you call her a jobsworth at home? If you don’t understand and/or disagree, go and speak to the school. Ask her to reevaluate the way she deals with poor behaviour because it’s having knock on effects when there is little to no warning. I must say, it must be a nightmare if she’s stopping lunches, PE AND keeping them behind. The head can’t surely be supportive of that?

Children not doing PE as a punishment is something that happened to my daughter's class this year as well and we made a complaint. That is not on. I also hate the 'collective punishment' mindset.

These things need to be changed imo but the teacher should be much more robustly supported as a new teacher (edited to add - by parents as well as the school. It's a learning curve for the teacher and it's fine to raise issues on that context but children will pick up on a lack of respect from parents first and foremost).

Whole class punishment are wrong and lazy. Deal with the kids that are causing the trouble. Cancelling PE is daft - you then have kids you haven't run off their energy so you're storing up trouble. I'd ask for a meeting and clarify school policy of whole class punishments, and withholding PE.

Yup. They'll be trying it on because they either know she's new or because she looks so young. She needs to be a total bitch until they accept her authority (teachers used to be told 'Don't smile until Christmas.'). Go in hard and be consistent. Kids have mob mentality. Once a couple of them are being rude/disrespectful/naughty, others will jump on the bandwagon.

Tell your child to dob in the naughty ones. Sometimes it's impossible to tell who the worst ones are, because no one has eyes in the back of their heads.

To be fair, children running about, kicking balls, throwing things could be dangerous if children aren't behaving. If they are showing they can't be trusted to be sensible, do as they are told and listen then it's probably partly a safety issue too.

And as others have said, impose consequences at home too. If enough parents do it, it'll only be those children and those families left being a pain. And then hopefully the mass punishments can stop and individuals can be held responsible.

You’re probably right that the problem lies with the inexperienced teacher, but you’re wrong and unreasonable to say it seems because she isn’t coping she’s retaliating against the children by being an absolute jobs worth. It’s not "retaliating" or anything to do with being a "jobsworth"; she’s trying to assert her authority and make the children who behave well get fed up and exert some peer pressure on the ones who are behaving badly.

However, I agree she’s not going the right way about it. It sounds like she needs more support than the school SMT are providing.

It's reasonable for you to email or speak to the headteacher about the children being kept in, but not for you to slag off the teacher like that (and I hope you’re not criticising her to your child). Being civil and showing concern for your child but also some sympathy for a young woman struggling in her first job is more likely to get the result you want, i.e. more support in the class.

Also for the teacher herself - she's just setting up a punitive culture in her classroom and it won't be a good learning environment anyway.

PE should never be taken away as a punishment, it's a compulsory subject. They also shouldn't be given whole class detentions! (or individual, at that age)

I'd quite happily be "that parent" in this scenario.

It's not really likely though is it, within the pattern of punishment. It's also mandatory and regardless of behaviour has to be facilitated. There is no other subject that would just be removed as a punishment.

Maybe she’s hoping by irritating the parents they’ll have words with their badly behaving kids to sodding well BEHAVE. I thinking pissing the parents off is probably a more effective strategy than any other punishment!

Honestly, she should have a mentor who should be helping her assert herself in the classroom and regain that behaviour management. It won't help to have another teacher do it for a week then leave; they need to be giving her some tips, maybe coming to observe but ultimately it should be her doing it.

Also, I'm definitely not saying the kids are 'bad' or whatever. They're just going to be doing whatever they can get away with, and I'm guessing they're doing this regularly now. It needs nipping in the bud or it's going to be a long year.

Try and support the teacher

I think it is highly likely. Dystegulated children during a PE session are not likely to be safe.

I agree with this.
None of these punishments are appropriate.
The teacher needs to be given a refresher behaviour management.
I worked in schools for many years and these strategies are outdated, over the top and ineffective.
I would be complaining to the head in the first instance and the governors if that didn't work.

If the school are supporting her methods then its the school that is trying to manage the behaviour of a horribly behaved class.

I work in education. If PE lessons are frequently being cancelled as a punishment for misbehaviour in another subject, I would be discussing this with the HT. PE is a national curriculum subject; cancellation of PE for poor behaviour (unless it is poor or unsafe behaviour within the PE lesson itself ) is considered really poor practice and a teacher who is opting to do this frequently could be on the edge of a 'breach of contract' situation, as she is required to teach PE. Cancellation of PE for misbehaviour in other subjects could also affect some children with SEND to a greater extent and in certain situations could potentially be queried under the Equality Act. So I'd want to know if such sanctions are aligned to the school's existing written behaviour policy (which should be on the school website).

Schools can legally keep children behind 'within reason' for short periods after school BUT they have to take into consideration any safety or transport issues that might create. So for instance if parents and children often miss the usual bus because children are being kept behind regularly.

So overall I think I might want to ask the HT whether children's safety, transport and SEND issues, plus curriculum delivery, have been considered as part of the decision to use PE and 'keeping behind' as regular sanctions.

As a side comment, I'm surprised that the school's focus on managing the class seems to be through punishment. Maybe also ask the HT what positive behaviour management strategies are being tried? A good mentor would be showing the new teacher a more positive approach to behaviour management.

Sounds like she's struggling but at least SLT have recognised it. She needs behaviour management training that's not always sanction based.

Adults who don't respect the teachers transmit this to their kids, who then do not respect the teachers.

Kids don't need any message from adults to disrespect teachers who are punishing them for something someone else did. Kids have a keen sense of fairness and recognise the lack of it all by themselves. They're young, they're not stupid.

We are experiencing whole class punishments with my 6yo right now and it’s really unhelpful. She is a sensitive thing and is really upset by being punished but also the injustice of it. I really don’t like whole class punishments at all and am readying myself to have a word. I would whole heartedly support the teacher with punishments if my child had misbehaved but she hasn’t (and indeed her last school report was that her behaviour was impeccable so I’m not just minimising).

Has anyone asked senior leaders what is happening? How do you know another teacher is being in the class next week, what explanation has been given by the school?