It’s not suddenly all the kids, it’s the new teacher.

[jollyoldjo]

DD has just gone into year 4 and has a new teacher.

They had the same teacher for the last 2 years and she was very nice and also had lovely teachers before her.

We are still in the first month of a new year with the new teacher who’s new to the school and quite young so at a guess newly qualified and suddenly all of the children are misbehaving but were fine with other teachers, she keeps them back 15 minutes every day for poor behaviour, this is decided on the day without notice but it’s been every day and that’s the whole class.

A more experienced teacher is taking the class for a week next week to sort out the behaviour.

I regularly help out on school trips and they’re not bad kids and they haven’t all suddenly developed behavioural issues they just have no respect for this particular teacher.
AIBU to think she has no control over the class and it seems because she isn’t coping she’s retaliating against the children by being an absolute jobs worth?

We’ve had multiple letters out explaining they’ve all missed breaks and not done PE etc because of poor behaviour and by keeping them an extra 15 minutes she is making herself very unpopular by leaving parents standing outside in the empty playground while she punishes the children and parents.
I have a child in the same school in year 6 who has walked home and got changed while I’m still waiting in the playground for dd to come out at supposedly the same finish time, we’ve never had this before.
Other children and their siblings have places to be after school.

AIBU to think if as early as September, 30 kids and their parents are hoping they don’t have this teacher again next year then it’s not the kids it’s the teacher?

I'm astounded that the school allows them to miss PE. It's written into the curriculum. If they're going to miss lessons, why not maths. That's appalling and I'm not sure it's even legal.

It's a difficult one. She's clearly struggling and needs more support from more experienced teachers in the school.

However, I would not be at all happy with being kept behind after school at this age. Two nights a week DD has activities that we would be late for if she came out 15 minutes late. I would be complaining about that one. I've also never heard of keeping kids after school as a punishment at Primary. It far more punishes the parents than the kids.

Missing PE also isn't good. It's just as important a lesson as any other. You wouldn't punish a class by making them miss Maths, so they shouldn't do it for PE either. Also I know several kids in DD's class who hate PE so if they got the message that they could make it be cancelled by messing about then I would expect the messing about levels to increase rather than decrease!!

Whole class punishments when just a few children are misbehaving is unfair and lazy teaching. If this is your DC, definitely see the head teacher.

Sorry, but if my child was being punished for others bad behaviour I would be taking them at the normal finishing time (I didn't even know they could enforce out of school punishments?) and complaining that my child was missing physical education.

She's teaching the kids nothing other than 'if you behave badly don't worry, you'll just be kept in with all your friends at break and after school'.

I'm surprised the school are allowing such an unfair and ineffective strategy, never mind the parents.

I think you need to make clear to your child that poor behaviour isn't acceptable to any teacher. However no way would I accept such young children being made to miss their breaks, valuable exercise time or having to stay after school especially as a collective punishment. That's bonkers. I'd walk in and physically remove my child at home time whether they liked it or not.

Also yes removing Pe is not likely to improve behaviour. If anything making it worse not letting young children burn off that energy. As well as it being a mandatory subject.

It’s an utter failure on the parents that the children have no respect for the teacher.

Children do become more rebellious as they get older and subject teaching becomes more desk based and harder so more concentration is required and there is less leeway for disruptive behaviour, throw in a new less experienced teacher and you have a potential for trouble. I think targeted punishment would make a lot more sense though, see how the other teacher copes.

They don’t let the parents know at the time they are keeping them behind, we just stand at a closed door waiting and waiting until they eventually come out and tell us they had to all stay behind, if I knew I’d have come a bit later.
But it is becoming an everyday occurrence.

I don't like whole class punishments. They should punish the one's who misbehave.
We had this with DD1 in Y5. They were always being kept back by at least 10 minutes.
He wasn't a new teacher but had always taught Y1 and Y2 before this.
Number of parents complained and the teacher began keeping them in at break instead. At parents evening I mentioned the break time detention and he said don't worry DD is well behaved. But she still rarely got a full break time.
See how next week goes and complain if nothing changes.

Sorry, but it's a rubbish teacher.
Agree with your sentiments but they're misplaced here.

I agree that parents should try and see the situation through the eyes of an inexperienced teacher - but this situation cannot continue either.
I don’t know how parents collecting children from two or more different locations are supposed to make this work. Or those working shifts who need to liase with other child care providers before their partners get home to take over care.

Hopefully no one here will feel the need to point out that shift workers should have considered such problems before having children … our emergency care workers, nurses, Doctors, Police etc are all included in this group of parents.

Purposely go 15 min later. If you get a call from the school asking where you are explain that you have been waiting 15 min everyday

Ok, I was responding to you saying it was every day.

There should be a school behaviour policy and if that doesn't include keeping the whole class behind then she shouldn't be doing it. Teachers have to follow school policies.

Why do you expect school staff to come from if ECTs can't be given time to develop?

I don’t think many of the parents have much respect for her anymore

Agree....sort of.... But respect should be mutual even between an adult and a child and it doesn't really sound like this teacher respects these kids. Young children are very black and white about things. How exactly are they meant to manage being repeatedly punished for something that they didn't do? Having less time to run around? Having less time to socialise? It would make most grown adults resentful never mind an 8 year old. It's lazy and unfair teaching and is unlikely to inspire respect.

Break time and pe are where the children let off steam. Does the teacher not realise that energy has to go somewhere, in this case it's going into miss behaviour.

It is a big deal though. I would miss my younger one’s nursery pick up and be charged a fortune. So I’d probably have to collect her and they’d have to hold onto my older one for longer until I got back.

We had this, the behaviour of the entire class plummeted. It was a disgrace. The teacher was shocking. The flights in the playground and bullying was off the charts. And then the next year everything settled down. I initially assumed it was a right of passage as they got older, but have subsequently accepted she was just shocking. I didn't complain at the time because I didn't think it would make a difference and I hadn't been directly affected so my complaint would have been quite vague. But I was shocked when the following year the class reverted to their well behaved selves.

Yes, this would not work for me at all. Some days I'd be late picking the other kids up from nursery, and others, one or more of the kids would miss paid for activities. I didn't even realise this was a thing that happened at primary!

I’d be pissed off to be kept waiting for 15 mins with no warning, if the kids are missing things during school time then that’s one thing, but people have places to be after school. I would see how everything goes with the other teacher next week, but if the new teacher keeps handing out same day whole class detentions to year 4s then I’d be asking for a different system that doesn’t impact all the kids

YANBU at all OP. My DD is incredibly well behaved and actually quite anxious about doing the wrong thing or getting into trouble. Whole class punishments are not ok, and not a good reflection on the teacher or the school. I would approach the school on this matter. I think you can be very warm and raise concerns in the spirit of support.

Yes and there's a causal link between the way parents as a whole value teachers, and teacher turnover.

They are worthy of respect because of the job they do and they work they put in for your child, including countless unpaid hours.

Back the teachers, show children to respect them by leading by example, and you'll have lower teacher turnover and a higher proportion of experienced teachers in the system.