It’s not suddenly all the kids, it’s the new teacher.

[jollyoldjo]

DD has just gone into year 4 and has a new teacher.

They had the same teacher for the last 2 years and she was very nice and also had lovely teachers before her.

We are still in the first month of a new year with the new teacher who’s new to the school and quite young so at a guess newly qualified and suddenly all of the children are misbehaving but were fine with other teachers, she keeps them back 15 minutes every day for poor behaviour, this is decided on the day without notice but it’s been every day and that’s the whole class.

A more experienced teacher is taking the class for a week next week to sort out the behaviour.

I regularly help out on school trips and they’re not bad kids and they haven’t all suddenly developed behavioural issues they just have no respect for this particular teacher.
AIBU to think she has no control over the class and it seems because she isn’t coping she’s retaliating against the children by being an absolute jobs worth?

We’ve had multiple letters out explaining they’ve all missed breaks and not done PE etc because of poor behaviour and by keeping them an extra 15 minutes she is making herself very unpopular by leaving parents standing outside in the empty playground while she punishes the children and parents.
I have a child in the same school in year 6 who has walked home and got changed while I’m still waiting in the playground for dd to come out at supposedly the same finish time, we’ve never had this before.
Other children and their siblings have places to be after school.

AIBU to think if as early as September, 30 kids and their parents are hoping they don’t have this teacher again next year then it’s not the kids it’s the teacher?

My dd had a teacher like this, but she wasn’t new to teaching. If one kid was playing up, they all had to stay behind at break. It just shows lack of control. I flagged this with her in a parent’s evening. My dd has and is well behaved in school and so were her friends, not sure why this teacher used this punishment for all the kids? Very odd, it should’ve been the kid/s that were involved in the crappy behaviour.
Anyway, she left the school but I don’t think she went on teaching.

So many red flags here, including the head presumably sanctioning this shitshow.

1. you can’t just remove parts of the curriculum. The children should be doing so many PE lessons each week, as per the National Curriculum.

2. whole class punishments went out with the ark and should not be used. They do no one any favours and encourage the well behaved DC to mess about as they’re going to be punished anyway.

3. after school ‘detentions’ just don’t happen at primary level. I would be removing my child, even if they had misbehaved. The punishment needs to fit the crime and take place within school time for those who have actually done something wrong.

4. missing break/lunch. Again, appalling, weak strategy as movement breaks would help with children who are disruptive and need to move.

I’d be making a formal complaint to the governors as this is simply not on. Given what you’ve said, the teacher is the problem. I reckon I could get them in line no bother (ex experienced teacher).

This again is the problem. The parents need to be more supportive of the teacher. Speaking to their children and explaining the consequences outside of school for always being late out e.g missing swimming.
Moaning at her isn't going to help.
My daughter's year group were a pain for their teacher last year and she never got to grips with them. My child didn't do well at all, as while overall they are normally good, I am pretty sure they joined in with the chatting and not listening when they should have been because they felt others were not doing it either. I did have words with my child about this not being acceptable and how the class did not act like this when they had the PPA cover teacher, meaning they were completely disrespectful to the main teacher.
It's honestly so hard with a class of 30 to isolate the offenders when others jump on the bandwagon. I am sure the head will be speaking to the class and that needs to be backed up at home.
And yes I have been in PE lessons where behaviour has been silly and children not listening so they have been taken straight back to class - if they can't do this then for PE it is unsafe.

If my child was kept behind for 15 minutes, the school would have to keep him for an hour while I collected the other one.

People who actually want to teach that age group but need support to do so. Obviously.

I feel for the teacher who sounds out of her depth, and the children are obviously sensing that and playing up. I would not let dc hear me complain about her and tell them they need to respect her and behave themselves, but no way would I be standing outside being punished myself for other kids behaviour either - after school is busy for us and we have places to be, I'd be going in and politely but firmly requesting they send my child out at the 5 mins mark.

Hopefully the next week will see some progress.

Year 4 so is that 9 years old? Surely by this age they should be able to be respectful towards a teacher, regardless of how strict (or any other attribute within reason) she is?

With regards to keeping them after school - is she keeping them sat in silence for 15 minutes as a "detention" or is she struggling to control the classroom to get them quiet and ready to be dismissed so it's taking an extra 15 minutes? That would affect my approach.

Either way, please talk to the teacher herself before taking it higher. It's really hard to be an ECT but talking to parents helps massively, when parents go over their head straight to the SLT it can be really demoralising and creates an "us and them" vibe rather than feeling like everyone is working together for the good of the children.

You could try saying that you do not give permission for your child to be kept after school; you have commitments / other pick ups / whatever and will be collecting at x time. If enough parents say that, the strategy will have to be rethought.

If tackling it with the teacher herself doesn't work, then go to SLT. This sounds like she has good intentions but poor execution; we had it drilled into us during our PGCE that group punishment is ineffective. I only ever used it once when teaching, when 98% of the class had been absolute horrors, and I made a point of sending out the two well behaved students first so they got their break (and this was secondary; I'd try a different tack entirely at primary).

I wouldn’t tolerate bad behaviour because they “don’t respect” the teacher. Behave anyway!

However, I wouldn’t be standing in the playground for 15 mins every day while they were kept in. I’d be going home, with my child, at the standard time. And I’d give them a bollocking if I heard that it was their behaviour that was in any way causing problems.

Collective punishments are a sign of weak teachers imo. In 20 years working in schools very good teachers never (or very very very rarely) used them.

Keeping children late every day is an absolute nonsense. The school management need to get on top of the situation very quickly.

I’d not be allowing her to keep my child 15 minutes after home time.

Remind them that collective punishment is a war crime

Agree. I actually think it's quite appalling. How on earth does the teacher think she will get positive behaviour from children who are treated like that?

I feel like I'd be in the office demanding they're let out

I'd have had to complain about this. It happened once in year 3 and my autistic DS was so so upset because of the injustice. Actually I'm not even sure it happened once after DS started crying and I had words!

They should punish the ones who misbehave.
Indeed but sometimes there's a majority misbehaving and there's collusion if not out and out group defiance. It's subtle but undermining and can be hard to isolate the troublemakers.

Obviously there are teachers who aren't so great at keeping control but it can take time to establish discipline. Kids sense weakness and can act up as a group - it's fun for a while! I certainly think kids can act differently for different teachers and just because they were well behaved in previous years doesn't mean they can't change for the worse. Hopefully temporarily!

This teacher needs support not disrespect. She's not being a 'jobsworth' but she may need to change her approach as the punishment isn't working it seems.

I think the message might get through sooner if you anticipate the daily detention and turn up 15 minutes later every day.

Yeah I’m surprised at that too. Either way it’s not a great idea at all, I generally disagree with class punishments and them missing PE and break time will only be adding to the situation.

I think she’s struggling and stressed and trying to assert her authority. She probably needs more back up and advice from the SLT as I don’t think she’s going about this in the best way.

Can't believe you've been letting all this go on so long. Second time they're 15 minutes late, complain to teacher. If she still refuses to let them out then complain to head. If she wants to give detentions she has to go through the proper process.

The parents in the playground must be absolutely fuming! People have places to be, appointments to get to, evening routines to get on with.

Hopefully the school is aware she’s taking things a bit far and that’s why the more experienced one is coming along?

Exactly. Thats why it doesn’t work. Plus the unfairness upsets children.

If you are routinely using whole class punishment, you are a poor teacher. As a one off, it's forgiveable. Almost daily, it's not.

"they haven’t all suddenly developed behavioural issues they just have no respect for this particular teacher"

So, behavioural issues...

It's an utter failure on the school for not adequately supporting a teacher who is not doing her job properly.

All parents should support teachers consequences when their child has misbehaved. They should not support someone being unfair and inept at their job.

Yes .they do. The school recognises that there is a problem here and are sending in an experienced teacher.to reset the class's behaviour. The new teacher will learn from the older one and all will be well in the end.

Give the new teacher a break and don't catatrophise the future when she's only just in the door.