To think criminals are very common?

[ChicJoker]

I see lots of threads on here claiming moral high ground and pearl clutching for example about people not correcting large company’s on a billing mistake. All very tsk tsk tsk “that’s stealing” etc.

it got me thinking, I’m sure it’s dependent on your region but I don’t believe there’s a single person where I’m from that doesn’t either know or have a relation to a criminal in some way. If mums net was a true representation of the public, surely criminals would be shunned from communities and the holier than thou would reign free.

where I’m from, everybody, and I do mean everybody - either knows someone directly or are themselves involved in illegal activity in some way. Even if it was historically. It’s astoundingly common. Anyone who claims otherwise is either lying or incredibly naive.

what are your thoughts? How do the whiter than white cope in life? FWIW there’s absolutely not a chance on this earth I’d correct for example Tesco on sending me a free online shop by mistake. I’d actually find it more morally inferior TO correct them.

I don’t know anyone.

People choose to obey the law for many reasons, some disinterested and some definitely self-interested.

My son's a barrister and is absolutely scrupulous because he knows, in his profession (and after long years of training and exams) the very slightest thing would see him chucked out. He's a nice guy and very honourable anyway, but he's certainly not going to throw everything away through dodgy behaviour.

A friend was asked if he'd lend his NT card to another CF friend (who's always on the scrounge) and he refused. She thought he was being petty but as the said 'I'm a Chartered Accountant! I can't commit fraud, however trivial you think it is!'.

I think there is a difference between people who have broken the law (eg underage drinking or sex, taking soft drugs, not correcting a supermarket bill if you are accidentally charged £1 for something that should have been £3 etc) and wilful criminality which I associate with knowingly inflicting your intentional illegal behaviour on others for your own gain or pleasure, such as burglary, drug dealing, bodily harm.

So many people saying they don't know or mix with criminals- honestly, you'd never know if your neighbour, hairdresser or gardener had been convicted at age 16 of a minor offence like shoplifting.

Isn’t this just a six degrees of separation thing? My friends and family aren’t criminals (that I’m aware of anyway) but I do know of people who are criminals, some friends boyfriends/ex boyfriends, my husbands sisters ex was done for drink driving and assault, my mums friends ex husband got caught with hundreds of indecent images (he’s in prison now), someone my husband knows went to prison for fraud, a boy I went to school with went to prison for GBH.. these aren’t people I hang out with or even like, but I am connected to them in some way whether it be directly knowing them or indirectly knowing of them through other people.

Well, I am related to a couple of fellas who were on the run for quite some time as convicted criminals, apparently. Never did hear what they were convicted of!

However, I also know multiple illegal drug users, no doubt some who deal, someone who was sacked for helping themselves to work's fuel, pub brawlers, far too many child molesters and sexual harassers, people who have nicked Christmas trees from the forestry lot, people who made 'special' chocolate brownies, drink drivers, shop lifters, insurance fraudsters, tax evaders and am not going to claim to be lily white myself.

I also lived behind the White Power, who were prolific drug dealers, and users, thieves and burglars, and wife beaters.

I'm a fairly middle class sort of a person. Although both sides of my family have some fairly interesting 'characters'. . .

Yes, fair enough - I was commenting on friends and family, but of course, I meet lots of people and they might’ve done all sorts of things. So then I’d agree with OP that statistically we’re among crims all the time.

I think this is sensible, but overcautious. I know a barrister who has been convicted of drink driving and one arrested for disturbance of the peace (which was actually a domestic incident but unclear what was going on, so could’ve been (was) abuse)

I know both through my BF, who was married to one of these men and predicted correctly their professional body would allow them to continue.

it seems quite common that the a type personalities that get people into amazing jobs are coupled with a darker side.

also I’m a chartered accountant and unless you’ve committed fraud or received a custodial sentence I can’t say it’s a big concern in my life. Certainly not using NT membership 😭 I’ve only had 1 speeding conviction though so not really pushing the barriers 😀

I don’t refuse to pay cash I just don’t use that trades person. Firstly if they are happy to shaft HMRC they have no qualms about shafting you too. They’re not putting it through their books and you aren’t getting an official invoice so if they do rubbish work your options for complaining are limited, and secondly I’m a chartered tax advisor and would definitely be struck off if I agreed to such blatant tax evasion.

But hey, you do you. Who needs a taxpayer funded ambulance when you have a heart attack anyway? Scum.

What’s the Tesco thread?

Can someone link to it please?

I mean I don’t disagree but you certainly would get an invoice/ reciept for work you’ve done that was paid in cash. Paying in cash doesn’t affect your proof of purchase!

😀

My son is just starting out and has heard some horror stories so he is cautious, but that’s no bad thing. He’s a natural law-abider, though. When he was at school he had some very rebellious friends and I did worry he’d get himself sacked just by association!

Also, my turn to be pious one of the things that doesn’t get discussed much when we are all trying desperately to distance ourselves from crime to prove how middle class we are (😉) is discussing and trying to understand the societal causes of crime and discussion about rehabilitation. Criminals shouldn’t be shunned. That’s terrible for rehabilitation. We shouldn’t be running away as if they have the plague.

We’re all humans and we don’t all have the same lives. When people have difficult lives there is almost always a difficult story behind it and missed opportunities and learnings.

If you are paying in cash to avoid vat you’re not going to get a proper invoice, because the first thing HMRC would say when they see the invoice is ‘where’s the VAT and corporation tax : income tax on this invoice’? The whole point about taking cash to avoid VAT is that your job is not going through the books!

I totally agree with you…in principle.

I’m absolutely in favour of rehab for criminals, but honestly, I’d be wary of someone with a criminal record for violence, theft or fraud. It would depend on what line of work they were put into. Gardening- OK. Financial services, no thanks.

Those statements may well be irreconcilable but I’m being honest.

Why on earth do you assume cash = tax evasion? You mustnt be a very good accountant if you’re not aware businesses can and do deal in cash. You know, like it’s currency?

Yes they either suspect and dont care or are so invested in their own little made up world of delusions that they can't see past their net curtains.

Where in the world does this happen? A tradie simply gives you a paper invoice/ receipt or knocks something up on Microsoft word. How do you reckon HMRc get access to that?!

Very interesting though as it gives quite an insight as to where you think danger lies- ex violent criminal as trusted position, in close proximity to a persons house often alone: gardener= palatable, ex violent criminal playing around with money= unpalatable?!?

I don't know, some criminals are absolute chavs but some appear very posh...oh.

deliberately misses point

I'm not sure you did miss the point 😏

They can and do, but if you asked asked to pay in cash to avoid VAT you are absolutely complicit in tax evasion. 23% of small businesses surveyed in 2021 thought it was ok not to declare income tax on cash in hand jobs. That’s a staggering amount of tax evasion.

I fundamentally wouldn’t trust them so it’s about where they’d have least opportunity to do harm. By gardener I was thinking public park or NT gardens, managed and supervised, not my back garden!

Low ambition criminals are pretty common.

White collar fraud/criminality practiced by the upper classes is generally a lot more lucrative and in general much less severely punished.

I’ve heard conversations on trains and in the hairdressers where women pretty much admit they don’t ask questions and just take the spoils. I’d find it hard to believe women are so naive as to have no clue when their partner is dodgy. If they are then that’s a crime in itself!