To think men don’t actually want equality in relationships, they just want women to do both roles?

[OneTipsyLeader]

So much talk about “wanting an equal partner” but in practice it looks like men expect women to juggle career, housework and childcare and still do the emotional heavy lifting. AIBU to think a lot of men don’t want equality, they want women to do it all?

Of course. The majority want a Mum they can fuck.

Yeah I think you're right

When they say equal, they mean equal in terms of things they care about...money and sex. They don't care about being an equal partner in terms of child rearing, housework etc, because it's not important to them.

I agree. They want us to be equal in terms of earning but the majority of them do not want to be equal in terms of rearing a family- the mental load, the organisation of family life, the housework and all the rest.

I’m married to a great one so in my case no.

But it’s hard to see my friends married to men who want them to work twice as hard so they are paid the same, do most of the housework, and the men can’t name the child’s friends, teacher, favourite colour, favourite subject or birthday. And they whine about freedom and being treated like they’re special.

No, they just want a woman who is nice to them and who treats them with respect. No man wants an "equal" partner, because men and women aren't equal. We are different, not better or worst than eachother, just different.

My DH does his fair share of housework and childcare. Acting like it's impossible for men to be decent partners does not help women's cause imho.

My DH is messy and thinks housework is pointless. I disagree. He lived on his own for about 10 years before we met. I remember his flat being so dusty I wouldn't stay there. So I accept that that if I want the place dusted and hoovered, I have to do it. Sometimes, the difference between time and effort spent on household chores is down to expectations and and what we are comfortable with.

Just like this

This might be partly true but you can bet they expect that even when they've cheated or massively fucked up. The woman is always being "too sensitive" or making a big deal about it. Self reflection or prior thinking on their behalf never seems to be involved.

Basic equity on being human and humane would be nice.

Ive tried saying this on the who pays on dates threads. That the amount of men splitting the cost on dates fifty fifty is a lot higher than the amount of men splitting childcare and housework etc fifty fifty but it always falls on deaf ears.

Yes, lots of men are incredibly passionate about equality when it comes to finances but that's about it.

I don't know because I'm not sure women mean equal either.

It's true I always did the bulk of the HW and child rearing, but it would always have been DH who went to deal with the difficult neighbours, did anyhting that required any brute force, who dealt with tradesmen or went to pick up drunk teenagers in the middle of the night

Men and women are different and different things are important to us. The reason I did the HW was because I cared about it more and DH would have been happy to live in a clean "enough". That doesn't make me right and him wrong.

Did you work as well? If so, he got a sweet deal..

Housework and child rearing are relentless...the tasks are absolutely never ending. Hiring a tradesman is hardly a task you need to do multiple times a day.

This one is subtle. I always offered to pay half. I also always expected a fight from a man who tried to pay the whole thing. Essentially, he’s signalling generosity and an understanding of the pay gap, I’m signalling independence and a willingness to be an equal partner.

It worked very well for me!

A bit like when DH and my dad fight about the bill in restaurants. My dad is saying he wats to treat us and he’s still head of the family. DH is saying he’s generous and can provide. Both outdated nonsense that me and mum roll our eyes at but it’s fun to watch!

@Chiseltip are men who dont fo their fair share with family life/household management nice?

Absolutely, that's true, I acknowledged it's not equal, but he took on the tasks I was uncomfortable with and I did the ones that were important to me, and that as how I liked it.

During a brief period when I worked more than he did, he took on much more of the child and home stuff and I really didn't enjoy that.

And bring in a big salary

Yes it’s amazing how many men seem to think a few “once in a while, and then it’s done” tasks equal out huge lists of relentless, several times a day, never done tasks.

With the bill paying on a first date...I think for a lot of men who are happy to split the bill, they don't genuinely care about equality...their mindset is, well you women wanted equality so you can have it. It's a mean spirited, you asked for it type attitude rather than truly caring about men and women being equal

I think generally people who significantly underperform in relationships look to have their spouse act as a parent figure towards them rather than a partner so they do not need to engage in adult responsibilities and actions. They want someone to serve them and care for them in a childlike way. Often one partner in these relationships dynamics gets to control the dynamics and the other gets child like dependency.

The worst most toxic situation is the one where the person underperforms and wants to control the dynamics too, the best situation is where both partners perform and both partners participate equally in decision making.

I think this last 50 years has seen significant evolution from many women in having a dependency on men in this way but much, much less so from men.

There is a significant push back from the most under performing men that women would go back to being underperforming and being underdeveloped too so they don’t have to grow up.

Usually, if you treat someone nicely and with respect, you’ll get that in return.
In my experience, men who complain about not being treated well by women is because they don’t treat women well.
On the other hand, I see women really trying to be nice and accommodating, doing everything they can to try to have a good relationship and family life, and men still treat them like crap.

I am seeing this as a big problem among my friends - all well-educated women with well-paid jobs. They’ve all been brought up with the expectation they’ll work and earn equally to men.

I know their husbands well - all are good guys, friends of mine, people I respect.

But… they all seem to be having this issue. The work outside the household is equal and sums of money brought in comparable… yet the home / domestic / child stuff seems to mainly fall to them.

This leaves them exasperated and resentful - and exhausted.

I think women were brought up with this ‘new mindset’, but men often weren’t - and saw their mum doing the lions share at home and just kind of assume it will be the same / haven’t really considered what their role is in this.

We sometimes ponder about what would happen if we weren’t here. Would clothes be updated as they grew? Would they have the right shoes? Would school visits be arranged? Would they have managed to get a nursery place? What would they eat? At what point would haircuts be booked etc etc.

There’s nothing to say that women have to put up with men like this though.

I heard an interesting interview on Woman's Hour about this where they said there have been studies that if a man has grown up with a mum who worked they are generally fine with their wife working. If they have had a SAHM they are much more likely to get depressed if their wife works and they don't or if their wife gets a higher salary.

Men haven't evolved but it's also what they've been used to seeing. I know a lot of mums who baby their boys, presumably to feel useful in themselves, which just enables another generation of confused men no one wants to date with weak egos.

As an aside - my dad had to bring me up and no I never had a hair cut or new clothes. My Aunt took pity and gave my cousin's hand me downs but we were completely different sizes. I still don't know what illnesses I had all through childhood or basic information most mum's would know and remember.