To think men don’t actually want equality in relationships, they just want women to do both roles?

[OneTipsyLeader]

So much talk about “wanting an equal partner” but in practice it looks like men expect women to juggle career, housework and childcare and still do the emotional heavy lifting. AIBU to think a lot of men don’t want equality, they want women to do it all?

Same.

I tell myself to remember that I am an open-minded person, different strokes for different folks etc, but when someone tells me they value traditional gender roles, in my head I react as if they've told me they're into a particularly gross kink.

Goodness, what a ghastly thought!

When we meet a man, our nurturing side often comes out. A year on, the woman thinks " why am I doing so much?" while the man just thinks it's how life is. I've told my kids not to pander to a partner unless they want that as their forever role.

A close male relative- who frankly is a lazy arse ( no cooking, cleaning, shopping, despite being early retired), was bemoaning the fact his working wife does not want to swing from the chandeliers when she's finished a day at work, on her feet all day. I said to take over some home tasks or it will never change. You'd think I had set fire to the house. He just did not see it.

Well we hear on here 'my partner has decided I am to be a sahm so I just go along witj it ans dont thinl myself'

So not sure overall but women dont have to 'do it all' they chose too, they chose the partner and have children with them and complain about it a lot but just keep on doing it

I presume they had long and deep discussions about it all and how it was all going to work when deciding to have a child with someone and didn't blindly go into it blindly

As an aside - my dad had to bring me up and no I never had a hair cut or new clothes. My Aunt took pity and gave my cousin's hand me downs but we were completely different sizes. I still don't know what illnesses I had all through childhood or basic information most mum's would know and remember.

I really hope that if anything happened to me, my ExDp would have done better by our daughter. He was rubbish about things like chasing homework though, so who knows.

Not all men of course

i I guess it’s how they are brought up

primarily as you say by women

why not ask why are women raising such needy boys

ah tin hat needed

Dear gdyou must have a miserable life

I’m happy, I’m content, I have no complaints - more than can be said for others 🙂

Completely agree.
Men will let you do as much as you take on.

I think there's just a lot of laziness, and I think that it's compounded because there is a different comparison between a mum doing everything for their son, and a mum doing everything for their daughter - I don't have the language to explain it, but there's an other-ness to the son/mother relationship, whereas a she-is-me to the daughter/mother relationship.

So male partners treating letting their female partners do it all beds in with the mother doing everything for me bit of their brain, whereas for a woman, she empathises with her mother, and so wouldn't let a female partner do everything.

Perhaps I'm not explaining it well. But I just think that there's a fundamentally different and detrimental to women dynamic.

Obviously massive generalisation, and there'll be outliers everywhere, but that's just my experience, as a woman who doesn't really want to live with one of the run of the mill men ever again (and is trying to raise her sons to be considerate of the other members of the household)

This is absolutely spot on.

A lot of men have cannily identified that they are beneficiaries of greater participation of women entering the workforce in large numbers not because it equalises the relationship but because it allows them to outsource absolutely everything to the women.

When are men expected to take responsibility for their own actions?

They are getting worse. The young women at work 20/25 do everything at home. Their partners simply refuse to do it. My dad born in 1930 did more, my ex did more than my dad but for some reason we are going backwards.
One particular woman I’m thinking of, her partner does nothing. Less than nothing she works just as many hours if not more and he will not do even the most basic.
My mum used to say ‘you get what you put up with’. The question is why put up with it. Not married, no children.

Most women I know are the higher earner, do the lion's share of the domestic tasks and ALL of them do the most home admin/ life organisation and keep the whole sodding show on the road and WE ARE ALL VERY TIRED.

Honestly don't know what the fuck the men are all doing with their time. Cycling and listening to podcasts mostly.

Then again I don’t see that at all. As an example DH drops our youngest at school the days I don’t WFH, of the 9 instances one or other of the DC does a club/activity he does 6 of them, he does all meals and anything related to that, he does all the ironing and a good chunk of the washing.

My friends all seem to split things, one of them her DH even essentially gave up his career so she could pursue a business she setup.

The way the conversation has shifted from 'out working x hours' to how much they earn, shows that it's always about elevating them and denigrating the woman. It used to be about how many hours 'he' worked but now it's very clear that women often work equal hours in the workplace and in fact work more hours overall when you take in domestic work and childcare. Now, because men often still earn more after children, it's become about how money he earns and this somehow elevates his non-working time to prime importance.

There's a reason there's a massive thread with over 300 comments last time I saw it about how women just cannot be fucked with this any more. Bringing in money, working outside the home, and still picking up the lions share of domestic labour - there's no partnership in that. It's not just that but honestly I don't think there is a group of people in the world that whinges more than men, and they're ultimately whining about being expected to be able to do basic tasks. I read a post on social media about a guy losing his mind because when he gets in from work his wife hands him the baby and goes to pump for an hour while watching TV and he couldn't stand that she watches TV. He bought her a different pump to try to get her to do chores in that hour while she pumped. He wanted her to do this - pump, do housework and mind the baby so HE could relax and do literally nothing. He actively stated he didn't believe that she finds pumping painful.

I'm also currently reading The Wife Drought and the more a woman works outside the home and the more she earns, the MORE housework she picks up. If a husband is unemployed, he does LESS housework. The research on this is mental. There's not a soul on this planet that can justifiably criticise women for being very, very firm in their boundaries about the terms they will get involved with men on.

That's the thing, it's not a benign assumption that they want to correct when they realise it's unfair. It becomes an expectation and women are made to feel they're being unreasonable and those men just don't see it as unfair - they see it as how it should be. They actively resist amending their mindset.

No I think they want kids. They just don’t want to raise them.

I think the quote doing the rounds just now is that they want a wife and kids, they just don't want to be a husband and father.

Men who are married and have children still gain a significant advantage in many professions over single men and women in general. There's still a social gravitas as well.

'Most men wouldn't bother' doesn't really stack up against traditional male control of women's reproduction.

I agree...I think a wife and children gives them social status.

Funny how when they walk out for another woman and don't pay child support that doesn't detract...

Some women just want a human atm.
And use kids for money and blackmailing men.
Tbh men and women are as bad as each other.

Quite the opposite for my mum she wanted kids for money my dad wanted a family.
They split and dad could only see us if he paid my mum although he was paying but it was never enough.
Mum then went to the next man and done the same as we was getring older her benefits was cut down.
No benefits coming in kids had to leave.
I was 14 thank god my nan and dad was there.
So its not just men that do it.

This one’s easy.

If we are happy without a man and don’t need one to make children with then we don’t need them. They have no power over us.

And they really really don’t like that.

They just do it the majority of the time.