To think men don’t actually want equality in relationships, they just want women to do both roles?

[OneTipsyLeader]

So much talk about “wanting an equal partner” but in practice it looks like men expect women to juggle career, housework and childcare and still do the emotional heavy lifting. AIBU to think a lot of men don’t want equality, they want women to do it all?

This absolutely nails it for me.

What I am less clear about is why so many men can’t seem to do the forward thinking.

Is it because mothers instinctively take that on and start off a pattern where they do the planning and make things happen so that fathers never bother to think or learn to be proactive?

Is it because they haven’t evolved to feel responsible (in a fundamental way) for their children? Do they always feel that they can do the bits they want to do/remember, knowing that they have a backstop of the mother who really bears the responsibility?

My DSis has just separated and is having to co-parent. He loses the toddler’s shoes, forgets to change her nappy, is late getting the others to school - without their book bags or homework. Why is he incapable of doing this without DSis’s constant prompting?! He’s a highly successful professional. What is the blind spot? Weaponised incompetence?

How do we (fathers too) parent boys to tackle this?

Maybe women should have a female partner, and males men, should just be sperm donors, if women want to have children. At least women having female partners, would be equal

I’ve never heard any men saying they want an equal partner or equality in a relationship. Surely that’s what women say!

Dunno about majority, but the type certainly exists.

I agree, imo my husband and myself do an equal share but we both have similar standards, which is we don't want to live in a filthy house so we force ourselves to do a bit but I would say it's not up to the standards of a lot of mumsnetters!

You again, OP?

Once you have kids you are pretty hobbled as to what you have to put up with. It’s the children that change the relationship and women don’t realise this until they have them.

You don't have to have multiple children with men like that though, especially if he makes it clear with the first one how it's going to be like. That can make it easier to leave than having sometimes 3, 4, 5 children with a man like that.

I think you might want to learn the difference between “same” and “equal”

On dating threads a lot of women seem to fetishise traditional gender roles and men being providers/protectors but then seem shocked when those men aren't so much into housework and domesticity, so maybe that's the equivalent of not actually wanting equality?

The only answer is to hold the line when it comes to the equality you want in a relationship, and not to let men get away with this attitude (or just don't date these particular ones in the first place). But if you want to do away with HIS traditional gender opinions then you have to do away with yours too.

It always amazes me how I see these issues talked about as the default on MN when that's not reflected among people I know at all. Most of my social circle have ended up with the form of relationship equality that they wanted. It didn't just happen, they had to do it consciously, from picking a compatible partner to continuously holding firm about what they wouldn't put up with etc.

The good thing is that men like this are relatively easy to bin.

There are a pleasing number of threads about dysfunctional relationships where you think about the male partner, "What exactly is he for?". It's nice to realise that many OPs can ditch the deadwood relatively easily and move forward unencumbered. The sadder threads are the ones where there is obviously a long journey back up to financial independence.

@Lammveghas it. They have different interests.

A lot of men just want an easy life. Putting in little effort comes so easily.
IME that involves wanting me to work and pay half the bills, but do everything else in relation to the home, kids, life admin etc. When that wasn’t ok with me my ex found himself divorced. Since then the single men either resent my career and earning potential (which is often more than theirs) and still want a homemakers whilst enjoying me paying my share.
Equality for me isn’t splitting everything but it’s a fair division based on skills and what needs to be done.
If I can find a man who understands that, then I’ll give up my single life. Until then, I don’t have a man leaching off me and life is good.

We're not having it all

We're doing it all

That's the crux of it.

Ultimately it’s women that wanted equality not men so we’ve dug ourselves a massive hole by wanting it all!!!

We are equal, different yes, but equal

I saw a great quote a few weeks ago - 'Most men just want a nurse and a purse'. Someone to look after them and provide them with money.

The current mediocre wife thread in AIBU is interesting and on the same subject

I think in a lot of cases women actually want this role though, which might be social conditioning but latterly, maybe not?

I was determined not to raise useless husbands, and my sons have done their bit since very young. They've both been very capable of e.g. cleaning the bathroom properly and other household chores since about 9yo and continued to do it regularly through aodolesence and early adulthood, but now they're adults I see GFs that seem to enjoy being indispensable and almost want them to be useless.

Do you really believe men and women aren’t equal? Surely not.

Things weren’t better without the vote, bank accounts, and the right to refuse sex. Picking which form of patriarchy is least worst is not the goal. The goal is actual egalitarianism. It’s not women’s fault that many men still want a servant/nanny who now also earns the same as them.

Stop your girls watching Disney princesses. Have them watch Studio Ghibli and their script will be about adventures, not waiting for Prince Charming. We pretend women should want marriage and that serves the patriarchy. Men should want marriage (seeing as they are happier, healthier and wealthier married). If this was the message, they’d make themselves worthy of it.

I agree. I’ve worked full time for years but done most of the child rearing. I separated from mg ex, then he went overseas for work for many years. Infuriating that he just expected me to do it all. Most of the drop off and pick ups, buying all their clothes, sorting all their appointments and washing all their clothes and general looking after them. He is paying for the uni costs and acting like some hero. Really p’s me off. Good thing is though that you can not say a bad word about their other parent, but they grow up and see who has done what.

I agree. I’ve worked full time for years but done most of the child rearing. I separated from mg ex, then he went overseas for work for many years. Infuriating that he just expected me to do it all. Most of the drop off and pick ups, buying all their clothes, sorting all their appointments and washing all their clothes and general looking after them. He is paying for the uni costs and acting like some hero. Really p’s me off. Good thing is though that you can not say a bad word about their other parent, but they grow up and see who has done what.

This. We were sold a lie.

But also, men suffered here too. They didn't keep up with the expectations, which were being sold to them too through films. If you stalk her with a boombox she will love you. If you act like a buffoon at a wedding like Hugh Grant you'll end up heading a publishing house with a younger woman.

Oh, wait.