To think men don’t actually want equality in relationships, they just want women to do both roles?

[OneTipsyLeader]

So much talk about “wanting an equal partner” but in practice it looks like men expect women to juggle career, housework and childcare and still do the emotional heavy lifting. AIBU to think a lot of men don’t want equality, they want women to do it all?

Yup - same for the women I know who use donor sperm. Men really don't like or understand that.

I haven’t had it from childfree men that is true.

But definitely far far far more men than women have had issues with my spinster status (and my lack of desperate desire to change that.)

My husband and I actually share the house jobs pretty fairly I think. I do the shopping/cooking, he does the washing/ironing, I tend to generally tidy more and he generally does the dishes & empties the bins. What I have found is that I’ve taken on a lot more of the kids stuff than him and it’s largely because he’s just happy to be a bit more selfish than I am. As examples if the kids want to do classes after school he’d be willing to facilitate a lot less than I am, he would invite other kids round for play dates as an occasional vs regular thing and he just wouldn’t take them places like a soft play.
I think women are conditioned a lot to be more selfless, think about others, centre the family and men are conditioned a lot to be competitive and to get ahead. In some ways, for us, things that cause friction would be resolved by me being a bit more selfish and just saying no to things so I’m less overloaded. It’s hard though and I also don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world to want to facilitate stuff for your kids as much as possible and indeed for your partner. We’ve fallen out of balance increasingly in recent years as my career has progressed, got more stressful & reduced my free time while also being flexible so I can just about make it work and as he’s got into idea of self care, which is not a bad thing in principle but can have the result of a person being incredibly self centred. Ultimately to me the difference between us even in a relationship where we have equality in a lot of ways is my worldview is more family unit first, individual second and his is the opposite. I don’t actually think he’s wrong or bad to have his worldview but the reality is that us together with young kids leads to a lot more strain on me and his offer of a solution is that I need to do less. It’s frustrating as it’s fine when we are on the same page about what needs to be done with household tasks but not so good with the kids stuff.

Oh and let’s face it this is a societal thing too as in the household and childcare realm people simply don’t expect the same of men as they do of women so men don’t experience the same external pressures to meet certain (pretty arbitrary) standards. The fact women often recognise this pressure is unwarranted doesn’t make it disappear.

In The Wife Drought, the author speaks about how women have 'higher' standards of cleanliness in their homes and men just don't care as much and wouldn't bat an eye at living in an untidy home (which given the pressure many men put their wives under, I don't think I buy that wholesale). She then goes on to point out that it's possible one of the reasons women have 'higher' standards is because when homes are judged to be messy, or unclean, or whatever else - they're viewed as the woman's untidy house and that she's not keeping it clean and tidy. Men don't face the same judgement, so it's not on the same level for them. I think this is true right through the domestic and parenthood spheres, and why men are praised to hilt for the basics but women are judged and shamed to a hellish degree.

Men and women being equal is meant to mean of equal value simply because we are human. Saying we are not equal because we are different means that our differences make one of us worth less.

Equal does not mean the same! It means equally worthy of respect, listening to, considering and being kind to.

I can, but then we both are!

Both our jobs are to protect each other (and DD) and to provide for the family. And there are roles for both. Abroad, I’m in charge. I’ve travelled a lot and poor DH is a little fawn in the face of haggling and hassling. Someone needs to create at the school, that’s me too. But DH is a giant rugby player type so if anyone needs pulled out of a burning building, or some road rage arse gets in someone’s face, that’s probably a DH issue.

Share the load. And OP is right. Many men just don’t want to.

No. No it doesn't. Why do you think that difference can't be complimentary?

Can men give birth?

No.

Can women be Fathers?

No.

Not all men. I am lucky in that my husband does pretty much an equal share of everything, it’s been great because we have both been able to lean in to our careers at different times as needed. But, and it is a big but, he can’t quite get over the traditional societal expectations around gender roles and as I result wants recognition and praise for being that 50/50 partner. I swear he wants a fucking medal for emptying the dishwasher! Still I can’t complain and he is the one most likely to nag the kids to do stuff around the house and since they are boys I hope this is getting it into their heads that they also need to be 50/50 partners (and with no medals!)

Do you even know what equal means?

Yup absolutely.

it frustrates me when people say just leave. My ex became abusive when I was pregnant I did leave but it was horrific. I was poor for years and still being abused by him. Leaving isn’t an easy thing to do.

then I found a great guy who did 50/50 but paid more bills because he earnt much better. Until we had a child and suddenly the inequality is obvious. He did none of the organising and was blind the the extra housework that came with his child. That I need a medal for doing what I believe is 50% but actually more like 20% attitude. Again we split up but this time it’s so incredibly different. He actually had his child 50% of over nights. I have him in the day as I’m a childminder but ex pays me half the loss of earnings I have from loosing a paying space. We are civil, often do family days out. He still loves my older kid and will have him for days out when I need childcare/just because. I love this life! I think he genuinely couldn’t see how he just let me be default parent. I’m still default parent but it doesn’t grate on me like it did when I was doing more than my share of everything while faced with a man who was deluded how much he actually did and offended I wasn’t gushing gratitude.

I really hope it boys grow up better but unfortunately the example I’m setting is mum steps up dad can choose

So depressing. My dc as now grown, but I could have exactly written this some years ago, when we were busy thinking of ourselves as the liberated generation.

Interesting thread. I’m divorced from my kids’ dad so I’m definitely one of those women who does everything - he sees them EOW and pays CM and that is generally seen as more than enough by society and indeed people we know. I do every school run and have found a flexible remote job that doesn’t pay what I’m worth but I’m holding on to it until the primary years are done. He would have no idea at all what homework is due, what days clubs are, their shoe size etc etc.

I decided long ago that I didn’t want another ‘live in’ relationship with a man, but I’ve occasionally had casual relationships based on the understanding that they will never meet the kids, etc - as you can imagine, only being free 2 nights a month doesn’t exactly make a budding relationship possible anyway. But the latest guy I broke up with - even in this incredibly casual context - it was bc I was still doing all the organising related to what we would do, booking stuff, I did all the driving, paid for it (he would sometimes pay me back a contribution afterwards). He was great company but once I realised I was still doing everything I totally got the ick.

What does being a father entail to you?

And is that what complementarianism is reduced to for you? Procreation?

Where do childfree / childless couples factor in?

@PenelopeChipShop

Thank you so much for your post. I really appreciated it because I wondered honestly if it was me going mad.

I am also divorced and we are meant to share 50/50 custody. In practice though i do 100% of the mental load. Still.

On his days he will ask me about uniform
or PE kit, he will ask me what they might like to eat (22 years of me cooking every meal every single day and he still has no idea what his children might like, or that it is possible to google recipes). Sitting at the table every single night for years and not wondering about how even one of the meals is made ….

He will redirect all school correspondence to me ie - “have you seen the email
about xxx trip, have you replied?”

If you saw the email why dont you reply?! 🤯🤯🤯🤯

On to “dating”. Not on any apps etc. Someone asked me out for dinner at his place, eat, watch a movie etc. Fine.

He literally clearly expected me to do all the table clearing, washing up, removal of take away debris into bin, wipe the table down etc. It was a FIRST date. And HE asked ME out.

These men dont even try.

He is gorgeous, so well spoken, well read, great company, not racist (very important to me) but SO lazy!

I asked him when his child’s half term dates were (out of curiosity - wanted to see if we could go to a Caribbean food festival) and he didn’t know. He had no clue.
He said “his mum handles all that”.

WTF?

What a shame.

Thanks for letting me vent 😅😅. I was so disappointed. 🫠🫠🫠.

Women are definitely more double burdened than ever and burning out as a result.

I know I was in my first serious relationship. Working al hours, dealing with finances, paying most of the bills and keeping on top of the house. Granted I was in my early 20s, so was my boyfriend so my tolerance for taking shit behaviour was higher and he was was effectively a man baby. I learned my lesson and realised this was not something I would put up with in my next relationship.

I'm now at the opposite end of the scale as a housewife and much happier for it.