Farage promises to deport people with ILR

[Acidburn]

Posting in AIBU for traffic.
Nigel Farage stated he would deport anyone with existing indefinite leave to remain. We are talking about millions of people.
This terrifying. If people live here, work here, have kids and mortgages - where are they supposed to go?

People always list the ways they don’t think they’ve taken from the state, but never give thought to how any of the systems or infrastructure that regulate the things they do are paid for. Your children are (presumably) vaccinated, and had check ups, your private health insurance provider is regulated, you drive on roads that are not solely funded by your annual road tax, you’ve probably travelled on trains or from airports that will have been part funded by government, you eat food that is safe due to regulations, shop in supermarkets, get your hair done, have your house cleaned … all by people who perhaps top up low earnings with benefits. Your children’s university education did not cost what was paid through SLC, but far more. None of that could have been done with just your tax contribution, it’s all an economy of scale, and yet people seem to think they can opt out by listing what they don’t use.

The welfare system is a mess but thinking we can pluck out a few people and change the rules is nonsense imo, there needs to be a much bigger change. And of course Farage won’t say that, because he knows people are drawn to the simplicity of his statements. It won’t affect you, he promises. But it will.

So his main policy is around migration. Is there anything else he is going to do? Let’s say he is able to get rid of a lot of foreigners, some can argue that there will be less pressure on public service but there will be people number of foreigners are going to be service providers. Is he going to train every remaining citizen to fil those roles? How is it going to help the economy? Has his voters think through this?

Yes. He's not too keen on pensions. All those unproductive old people. Who will now have no carers either.

I suggest we all think deeply irrespective of our nationality about whether we would be a taker or contributor under this idea. Because while it would apply to ILR, it could also apply to British people. No benefits unless you contributed. The logic seems to ring out if you want people to work…

He happily kept his MEP pension

The NHS will cease to exist so he doesn't need to dismantle it

We weren’t happy before Brexit. Because if we were, the majority wouldn’t have voted for it. The discontent has been brewing for years.

I wouldn’t assume what other people do or don’t know.
Or what people can/can’t look up and either try to verify as best they can, or not from the looks on here, and I’m not immune or perfect on that either.
I’ll have to let you assume which bits I may know and which bits I Google and which I fact check more rigorously- I think you will do anyway.
Housing is an issue, not created by migrants though, but austerity, our economic policies for years etc etc.
If you look at Oz then their immigration policies for asylum seekers at least are heavily criticised and not sustainable in many cases, being overruled by their courts - one offshore processing centre is shut now for eg. The treatment of their indigenous people is also not something I would wish the U.K. to copy.
I disagree with you that it’s not about race, though accept that isn’t you, or everyone of course - there's always been an undercurrent of racism in the U.K. but I had hoped over the years that it was withering and dying - I still hope it is small numbers being most vocal, but that doesn’t seem borne out by things I know, Google, check sadly.
I’m also not so sure that anyone is recognising that after this there would be other detrimental policies from Reform - as in I think they will poorly impact on everyone, discussed in another post, though I accept not all will agree.

Of course not 🤪
This Reform council leader at least had the sense to realise that the governments planned changes had the potential to cause problems. Farage doesn’t even have that foresight.

https://news.kent.gov.uk/articles/immigration-bill-further-whammy-for-under-pressure-social-care-warns-kcc-leader

He's coming for anyone on benefits. Absolutely. When throwing out all the legal immigrants doesn't work, he will be blaming single mums and those on benefits.

I love the smell of fantasy asset inflation in the evenings.

All that income, and a career as a teacher, and yet you still don't seem to grasp the basics of the benefits system - that foreign nationals make up 15% of claimants and that newly-arrived migrants (other than a resricted, small number of categories) CANNOT claim benefits or have recourse to public funds for a period of minimum five years - and you're clearly happy to swallow the lies of a proven tax-evader and far-right grifter rather than research the facts for yourself.

UC claims are made because a household's income doesn't match what it takes to cover basic expenses. It's not inevitable to claim, most non-UK nationals don't, and a first-time claimant won't necessarily claim for life. Low income is of course due to low pay rates and insufficient working hours. But I suspect you're also in the "Oh they're just being greedy to ask for payrises" and the "businesses won't survive if they have to pay workers at least the Living wage" and the "ZHCs are perfectly reasonable and workers should have to accept them" and the "Rent caps are discrimination against private landlords" camps, as well.

You then have to look at the lack of housing and how difficult it is to secure even a private rent these days. Let’s also not pretend that adding more people in to the mix is going to ease the housing crisis!

Yes, and this is only going to get worse as the government are contracting to rent homes to place the asylum seekers in (currently 1000 new men per day) so they can claim they are spending less on hotels.

That £6m per day on hotels is likely to be significantly more this month as 1000 men per day is at least 2, maybe 4 additional hotels. We are going to run out of hotels soon!

In Spain unemployment payments are dependent on how much you have paid into to the Spanish system.

I believe that they should be starting to phase in a pension decrease for those that are under 40. This will then push people to contribute into a private pension. People over 40 should be able to continue to claim their state pension at the current levels, raising of course with inflation, because they haven’t had the benefit of preparing for a decreased pension. Pension age for those under 40 should also increase to 70, again giving them time to save into a private pension to enable them to retire earlier on a private pension. There needs to be a big review into disability payments and UC. This is where savings can and should be made.

You make an assumption that the people who will vote Farage in are poorly educated. This is not always the case.

It’s really worth discussing why Brits aren’t happy tbh - or if it isn’t unhappiness but a drive to feel part of a cause.
I read somewhere that nature drives a need for war/fighting every 50-100 years ( maybe to reduce population levels) and civilisation can’t seem to stop this - I think it was a reputable source but can’t verify. Maybe this is the reason for the vitriol in some way.
We have slashed community and community support over the years - some trace that back to Thatcher, and some austerity. That doesn’t help on a happiness scale.
Thing is - I see the 50s touted/dream sold - but it’s a fantasy look back - so many things we are glad to have left there including healthcare, wages, equal pay etc.
We can’t, but also shouldn’t want to, go back - it’s no better, often worse - and we only live in today’s world.
Seems to be that people still believe in fairytales and unicorns buying into the Reform sales pitch without considering the reality, but they have at least found a common cause that they can actively progress and ‘fight’ for - grand PR from the right to be fair - but as real as scotch mist - they’re actually fighting for the rich to get even richer.

Not always, but I'd hazard a guess that the majority are.

Except polling dipped over the benefit cap announcement.

I assume it would push people to apply for citizenship so all in all just a money grab?

I don’t know how many who have ILR wouldnt be eligible. From memory after two years of marriage and 5 years otherwise? I think I’d be applying for citizenship if eligible sooner rather than later than later though.

"Mass unskilled immigration from Europe kickstand the Brexit vote".

Oh good, Schrodinger's migrants are back again. They simultaneously were all unskilled, yet took all the jobs off British plumbers, electricians, bricklayers, carpenters, crop picking, careworkets, Nurses, Doctors...(all skilled work) AND somehow all managed to get around the stringent benefits restrictions to all simultaneously claim benefits.

And after Brexit, the British of course flocked to take back the jobs that were stolen from them. Which is why crops are not rotting in the fields, farmers didn't have to lobby for special agricultural workers visa schemes to be introduced and there isn't an acute shortage of tradespeople, care workers, nurses or doctors.

/s

And this will be the downfall of those who appear to be very confident that only the uneducated will vote in Reform. Exactly the same happened with Brexit, but clearly some people just never learn from past mistakes. People generally don’t share their political leanings outside of family, because it’s private. I voted Labour in the last election, but other than my dh I didn’t tell other people. I voted Tory the election before that, but again no-one other than my DH (and now a bunch of strangers on MN!) knew. So I don’t think people can confidently presume how those around them, neighbours, work colleagues etc, are going to vote.

It’s this that worries me. The threat to rescind right to stay first then citizenship. My parents came from the colonies to work. Our family has never claimed benefits but the Overton window has shifted and because we are the wrong skin colour we may be thrown out because the country has been run badly over the last 14 years - Brexit which was Farage’s idea, lack of investment in the country, lack of investment in public services. People voted for this and now are unhappy about the results and blaming “foreigners”instead. I am really scared about where we are going to end up. I never thought I would be saying this.

Coming back to this thread as a Boriswave immigrant, I just want to repeat this again as I think many posters don't know this:

Immigrants are not eligible for benefits until we get an ILR, which takes 5 years.

I paid an NHS surcharge of £ 1035 per YEAR.

Why aren’t our governments pressing employers to pay decent salaries that might encourage more of us here to do the jobs, eg carers, and to get rid of zero hours contracts? Give workers stability and the chance of a decent life? I know what migrant carers do, and I see why Brits and permanent residents here won’t do the work; it’s not enough to support families and the hours aren’t family friendly. It would just mean more Universal Credit top ups. I accept we need migrant labour, but we don’t need whole families who will be a burden on our diminishing public funds. Ultimately, money is what it boils down to. And we don’t have anywhere near enough to sustain the population already here. Something has to change. Patronising people who dare to express concerns about this is a sure fire way to send them into Farage’s arms.

I don’t need to deep dive into the figures. I hear about the problems people in my home town experience every day when trying to access our services. Or what’s left of them. I also see one developer, probably a multi-millionaire by now, taking advantage of the asylum situation, buying up entire areas of towns, good housing stock, and selling his soul to the Home Office, taking properties out of the system. I hate people like him, too.

I don’t want a Reform government. But I do want Labour and the Tories to sit up and listen and make realistic changes which will help the situation. Calling people like me a bigot in an attempt to shut us up just won’t wash any more.

The Reform supporters I know who are decently educated are all retired.
They fairly unashamedly want foreigners out.
Interestingly, while British through and through, a couple of them weren't born in the UK (army babies), so I wonder if they are also on the deportation list as they are only on the take at the moment.

Before Brexit it was fine. People was happy and trading with in Europe now we have a rising welfare bill. The majority who claim welfare is English people. You seem to talk about yourself what about those who are less fortunate and has to rely on the state pension. You're alright what about the poor?

This is what I found on the internet "Younger people could receive less state or private pension if the economy shrinks significantly, particularly if it impacts economic growth, job security, and government funding for pensions. A shrinking economy could reduce the real value of pension savings, decrease employment income, and potentially lead to the government having to raise the State Pension age further or reduce benefits to maintain fiscal health."

We need people working and contributing to society and that's what immigrants will do. They will do the jobs English people don't want.