Farage promises to deport people with ILR

[Acidburn]

Posting in AIBU for traffic.
Nigel Farage stated he would deport anyone with existing indefinite leave to remain. We are talking about millions of people.
This terrifying. If people live here, work here, have kids and mortgages - where are they supposed to go?

I agree and yet posters are arguing that's what they are here for. The five year wait for benefits. We're mad in this country.

He is not stupid. He’s a lot cleverer than many give him credence for

Even as recently as last year Farage was saying that the British public wouldn't wear the deportation of legal migrants.

He's probably being pushed by the likes of Elon Musk.

He may not have realised just how many people have a family member who could be affected. DP's family are Brexity but one son is married to a woman who has ILR. Many people tempted by Reform could be wary of what would happen to a loved family member.

As we see from endless threads many people want to believe you can support Reform without being Far Right. If this policy sticks then there's no plausible deniability left.

I give you Liz Truss but Nigel will outsource everything to his mates/the highest bidder.

"Unproductive" "people who don't contribute..." do some of you on this thread know what you sound like? How are you not ashamed of yourselves? And how many of you using this disgusting rhetoric really grasp how close you are to becoming "unproductive" also? Do you think you are safe because you have the magic status of being "born here"...history shows this is no protection whatsoever.

I am a historian and for those rolling their eyes at the comparisons to the Nazi party are in for a rude fucking awakening. The Nazis didn't start with putting people on to trains either, it was their own sick and disabled citizens first, labelled "unproductive" and "life unworthy of life".., and then the goalposts began to move.

This policy would also see me, a daughter of a British soldier (who isn't on my birth certificate) and a decent, educated woman with three British children, deported to a country that has the same bloody King! I was told I was the "right" sort of immigrant, who came here using "legal" means...well the mask has fully come off now, hasn't it?

So disgusted. If my husband was amenable I'd leave tomorrow and I have loved this country all of my life.

He is the reason why we are unhappy now. He started this mess and then walked off to buy a 35 million pounds house in Oxfordshire. We made ourselves poorer not richer and when the people get what the want then it will go further downhill.

I found this on the internet it's not wrong we done it to ourselves "Countries often cited as the most miserable due to high inflation, unemployment, and low living standards include Venezuela, Yemen, and Zimbabwe, while recent reports on mental well-being and happiness identify countries such as Afghanistan, Lebanon, and the United Kingdom as being among the unhappiest. The specific list of "miserable" countries varies depending on the metrics used, whether it be economic factors or self-reported happiness and mental well-being."

We were happy before Brexit.

Immigration is wage suppression, so removing supply directly will impact wages.

Please cite a study that says this.

Who?

I don't have an issue if this is what they are trying to do.
When I moved to Germany in the early 2000s, my German partner had to sign and prove that he had the funds to keep me as I wasn't going there and straight into a job.
We also had to take out private health insurance to cover me, and why should I get benefits from a country I've not put into?

Once I found work, and was employed for 11 continuous months, I was then entitled to access their version of NHS, which is fair.

When we moved to the UK 6 years later, my German partner wasn't entitled to access any benefits or GP/hospital, etc. (Bar an emergency, which he didn't have).
Again, he had to prove employment for 12 continuous months before being allowed to access a GP, etc.

Again, this is the way it should be done. Everyone had medical cards in Germany, proving their entitlement to treatment, whether paid for by private insurance or state care. I don't see why we can't do the same here.

This guy isn’t stupid. I think you are really underestimating what he wants. I don’t know why Farage gets such a free pass - the implications of the powers he needs to do this change, even with a bit of muddled messaging (I think they’d downplayed it a little in terms of the who btw) are quite scary.

Actually the data in the linked article shows that.migrants who earn the average wage do make a net contribution - more so than an average British born person.

But given that you have also included quote I referred to which says that regardless of net cost vs net contribution of immigration is, overall, less than 1% of GDP, you really have to ask yourself why it is taking up so much air time!

Who does it benefit to have the whole country focusing on the issue day in day out?

Who benefits ultimately from a distracted government having to deal with this nonsense (and I'm talking both Tory and Labour) while public services crumble?

It certainly isn't the British people or the immigrants and if isn't the government of the say given it has destroyed the Tory party and is doing a pretty good job of eviscerating Labour's policy agenda.

To understand where all this is leading - follow the money - not the benefits bill or the cost of housing a politically created asylum backlogs, but the real money.

Who has shares in American Insurance Companies?

Who makes millions from media contracts and TV appearances?

Why has something that has such a relatively small impact on the economy overall become the defining issue of the age?

Some people will get very very rich before all of this is said and done - it won't be you and me and it won't be Bogdan down the road working a £25k a year delivery driver job!!

They are the people we should be focusing our ire on!

Please answer the question: do you agree that the simplest way to reduce the "massive" Benefits bill is by reducing pensions, currently 48% of the total budget, predicted to rise to 58%.

Have immigrants paid into the system for 35 years? If they've been working for 35 years, yes. If they haven't, no.

Farage is a bellwether for the rest of the country - he doesn't say things he doesn't think are within the Overton window, and encouraging legal migrants to leave is, now, in that category. Your issue is not with Elon Musk but with your neighbours.

For some of your neighbours, by the way, Farage is a wet and this is long overdue basic policy. For them, this is obvious and the conversation is more like "how forceful should we be about encouraging the 2nd/3rd gens to go back to their original country?" and "where should we put the prison camps for the ones who don't comply?"

I have said in numerous threads on this topic: the only reason there has not been widespread inter-ethnic violence and an authoritarian populist leader (think somewhere right of Rupert Lowe, not Farage) is because people still think there is an avenue through the legal system to massively stop inflows and passively integrate the rest and/or allow for natural emigration.

The Boriswave was a huge surge above already high immigration and many people are desperate to ensure that it isn't "locked in". Via legal or extra-legal means.

I would prefer not to have migrant prison camps and ethnic rioting, personally - not dealing with immigration is the path that will lead to that, though.

Zia Yusuf disagrees, and he’d know. He said the plans would;

“lead to hundreds of thousands of people having to apply and ultimately losing their settled status in the UK, which will be done on a staggered and orderly basis to allow businesses to train British workers to replace them.”

So what they’d like to do is deport “hundreds of thousands of people,” take those people out of the workforce to be replaced by British people who don’t want those jobs, aren’t trained in those jobs, and won’t do those jobs.

Great idea.

They pay the rate set by the government. The government that so many on here keep telling us is taxing people too much.

And then everything their earnings and those benefits is spent on is taxed. Unlike the very wealthy, poor people don’t hoard cash or assets.

Right. I’m properly enraged, so here’s my vent.

I’m European, but a naturalised British citizen. As soon as the ugly prospect of Brexit reared its head, I knew something like this would be coming, so I applied. Luckily for me, I could.

Under the proposed system, though, I wouldn’t even qualify. I’m educated to PhD level, but well below the £60k salary threshold — so that’s me out. My English? Apparently still not “fluent enough” (whatever that means) and, horror of horrors, I’ve got a foreign accent.

And honestly, I’m not at all convinced even naturalised Brits will be safe. If the government looks hard enough, there’ll always be “reasons” — a parking ticket not paid on time, an NHS-funded operation that cost too much… Suddenly, the question becomes: do we really need these “new” Brits? There’ll be thousands of excuses to strip “undesirables” of their citizenship.

As for settled status holders — I don’t believe they’re safe either. Same logic applies.

Being an immigrant myself, I know plenty of others (90% at least) who wouldn’t be able to get a new visa under Farage’s proposal if their ILR or settled status were revoked. And many can’t apply for citizenship before the rhetoric hardens into law.

What really gets me is seeing people in this thread who seem perfectly fine with the idea that people whose whole life is here — people who cannot just “go back where they came from” — could be thrown out of the country. “Well, they’re illegal now, aren’t they?”

In a recent poll only 4% of people said immigration was a problem for them personally.

Most people won't even notice if immigration drops except to complain about being unable to get social care.

You can't use "there'll be race riots" as an excuse to pursue an abhorrent policy like this one

I don’t know when the rules changed then because now access to a GP is not contingent on employment. And nor should it be - primary healthcare is a very good way to prevent emergencies, which are ultimately far more costly.

Access to secondary care (hospital treatment, for example) is dependent on immigration status. I don’t have a strong view on ID cards but the system does work without them.

@SuffolkSun, yes I have always worked as a teacher and HoD. I took 1 year home for each DC. Majority of time in higher tax bracket as also have another income. My DH was a higher rate tax payer. My DD went to an independent school so not a burden on the state. She is now a higher tax payer. She has also repaid her student loan in full. I have 2 DS's who both work full time, neither have any dc. I have never claimed UC or similar and neither have any of my DC. For last 15 years I've had private medical insurance and so has DH. I've retired early as did DH but still pay higher rate tax on my pension and passive income and so does dh. I don't get state pension yet. Neither does dh. I'm pretty sure I'm a net contributor and so is DH. We are both over 60 and still paying higher tax now. When we get our state pension we will pay even more tax. But it's not a competition. It's just the UK is on the way to going bankrupt. Something has to stop the welfare bill climbing ever higher. Starting by refusing new migrants benefits seems as good a place as any because they won't have paid anything into the system. 800,000 new claimant's will be econe eligible by 2006/7 if nothing is changed. EU nationals are protected under Brexit agreement but non EU people are not.

I do wonder where you see yourself fitting in all of this? I get the impression that you think being well off will insulate you (probably true) and maybe it’s easy for you to leave when you’ve had enough but you seem very comfortable flirting around the edges of policy announcements touted by people who hate you. I wonder the same about Zia Yusuf. Just an interesting psychological paradox.

I love this! Superb x

All who are happy to remove immigrants cos ‘benefits’ I assume will be happy when all of us allowed to stay in the U.K. also lose ‘benefits’ - including pensions, child, childcare, disability, maternity - it’s really not gonna be some utopia where ‘we are exempt’ from zero support on everything we are used to today, because we saved a fortune on immigration benefits (though that’s not how it works anyway).
Farage et al do not like benefits - the US and UAE, his current favoured model - have few.
And I don’t just mean monetary benefits - free or subsidised care for the elderly, young, disabled. My mum’s care at home (4x calls per day) was slightly subsidised, as in a cap on charges, so she ‘only’ paid £2k per month, instead of around £3.5k. This too was with carers on minimum wage - which according to here will be quadrupled anyway - basic maths means she should then pay around £16k per month. Then again as a teacher with a lecturer husband (£60k only between them and not each)and with the audacity to claim her pension for many years, she perhaps wasn’t a net contributor so fair enough.
90% of these carers were not Farage’s type of British citizens - but were great with her - I have doubts that paying Johnny March for the U.K. high wages to care will make for a great experience for the elderly needing care.
I honestly thought that a bit of a think on how Frog’s plan would affect ‘you’ and ‘your neighbours’ would be enough to stop the love for him/his policies, but guess that even selfish Reform voters are willing to die on the hill of hatred - the non lifelong healthy millionaires probably will as well. Just unbelievable.

Not quite.

It's true that fewer non-EU citizens make UC claims at the moment compared to claims made by EU nationals.

However, Farage argues that the biggest cuts would be delivered by barring an anticipated 800,000 non EU migrants gaining ILR in the next 15 years. These are people granted visas under Boris Johnson's "liberal immigration policy".

It's good the mask.has come off.
First it was " stop illegal immigration".
Now it's " Stop legal immigration by any means otherwise we will have race riots and prison camps".

Your post suggests you know the ins and outs of how the visa system works and I doubt that. You say immigrants are net contributors with convict but even the experts can’t agree on that. You have to be earring over a certain income to be considered a net contributor then when you add children in to the mix, the NHS, School etc etc it’s clear that someone on the minimum wage (regardless of where they’re from and including Brits) aren’t net contributors financially. They often need benefits to top up their wages. That’s not to say they don’t work hard, but let’s not pretend working full time is enough to be considered a net contributor, it doesn’t.

You then have to look at the lack of housing and how difficult it is to secure even a private rent these days. Let’s also not pretend that adding more people in to the mix is going to ease the housing crisis!

Mass unskilled immigration from Europe kickstand the Brexit vote. People were fed up back then and they’re at their wits end now because for the average Brit life is harder now, houses are more expensive, rents are a difficult to come by, food bank use is at an all time high and folk are simply sick of not having anything and basically surviving. Again, nothing to do with race and everything to do with lack of resources. Canada and Australia have the right idea