Starmer’s support for Palestine

[Steph888]

Am I alone in seeing this as one of the darkest days in UK history?

Never before did I think I’d end up living under a government who reward terrorism.

Starmer and Labour are grotesque. History will not be kind to them. They have now empowered all terrorists and their supporters.

We deserve such better than this reprehensible government. They disgust me.

Same here. Vicious. And it was so instant, quicker even than the pro-Hamas speech by Palestine Action's co-founder on 8 Oct and the PSC's anti-Israel march in London the following weekend (organised as the attacks of 7 Oct were unfolding). And full of so many blatant lies and distortions, hard to keep up with. It looks as though many of the threads have been deleted retrospectively, and the sheer volume of them has diminished over the past year or so, maybe because MN tightened up on spamming from bad actors.

I think it would be crazy to say that there is no anti semitism. There obviously is, it has been getting worse over the past few years and I believe it has ramped up since the 7/10 attacks. It's horrific. There is no excuse for it and it needs to stop. Israel carrying out genocide is no justification to be anti semitic or to deny that anti semitism doesn't exist or isn't a problem.

The post on here detailing why and talking about the scene faced showed why it was said. I won’t say it again as it’s sad, brutal and about people’s suffering.

On that I can see why the ‘debunked’ line travelled around the world quickly when it shouldn’t have.

It started with traumatised rescue workers (and IDF) trying to make sense of what they had just found, when pestered by international press in the immediate aftermath of the sadistic massacre. I saw posts on here mocking one of the rescue workers who found the remains and mistook them for children. His distress was palpable, and yet he was dismissed (even reviled) here as a Jew liar. I'll never forget it.

He found the remains and mistook them for children…. So what about the actual remains of actual children- Palestinian children?

I agree with you. It is emphatic support for a terrorisist organisation. But Israel have lost the support of their allies. They needed to respond to the 7th October attacks very differently. Much more strategically. They have played straight into Hamas’s text book strategy.

Exactly this. Hamas have been much much more clever than Israel. Indoctrinate your civilians to consider death as martyrdom.
Bombing the hell out of Gaza hasn’t and won’t win this war - politically or militarily.

But rewarding Hamas in this way is very disappointing from Starmer.

Yes agree re Hamas. What is the way out of this now?

@Beachtasticthank you for explaining again, as terrible as it is.

Call me old-fashioned, but to me there is a difference between children being killed in war (a war started by thier own country, and fought by combatants who ensure maximum civilian deaths) and children being killed in a sudden terrorist attack of unprecedented violence and cruelty, where the perpetrators laughed while they ramped up the psychological and physical sadism. An attack that was carefully planned (by Hamas) yet to some extent spontaneous (the civlian mobs who swarmed across the border to join in the fun).

I think Israel should end all military attacks. Regroup politically. Hold an election - the new PM will issue statements saying he abhors ‘genocide’. They wish to live peacefully next to Palestine - which they recognise as a state. Put Hamas completely on the back foot. Regain the political support of western allies.
This is the only way out now.

Hamas will continue to build militarily - to the detriment of their civilian population - Iran will support them. If and when they decide to try destroy Israel then I am sure most MNetters will say it was well deserved. This is where the world has landed.

I don't understand.

What is the difference if both sets of children were innocent?

‘There is a difference in children being killed …’

I wouldn’t call you old fashioned. I would call you a lot of other things namely completely devoid of any compassion or humanity for that response. It’s the very reason why the whole world has turned against Israel because normal people cannot stomach innocent children being brutally murdered day and day out but above all, what’s sickening for us is the lengths that you people will go to justify the killing of children.

The intention.

So a life is worth less if the intention is different?

And surely the intention is the same.Both parties wanted the children dead, and they succeeded.

You may disagree, but I don't think Israel's intention is to murder children. But that was very clearly the intention on 7 October. It's nothing to do with lives being worth less.

The Israeli soldier who spoke to Sky News anonymously said they do intentionally kill children.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_snipers_target_palestinian_children_in_gaza

I would be very surprised if there were no rogue operators in the fight against a threat like Hamas and Gazan civlian mobs.

If you drop a 500lb bomb on a school full of displaced children you are intentionally murdering them.
If you sniper a child when they are going for water you are intentionally murdering them.
If you shoot 355 bullets into a car with a child and kill them you are intentionally murdering a child.
If you carry out a ground assault on a hospital ensuring babies are left to die in their incubators it is intentional.

And depending on your viewpoint if you destroy 4000 embryos in an IVF facility deliberately it is intentional.

And all this is irrelevant because every human life is equal no matter how the end comes .

Unless you think it's not.

I’m sure it makes no difference to their parents siblings and friends. But you apparently don’t think all children’s lives have the same value.

They’re not rogue operators- it is the actual military strategy.

Israel has targeted and murdered hundreds of Palestinian journalists and has not allowed international journalists in because they did not want the world to see the truth. It didn’t work. Recognising the Palestinian state and the right of Palestine to exist is the very least Starmer could have done in the face of overwhelming global recognition of the genocide. There needs to be an arms embargo and sanctions and a ceasefire immediately to stop this slaughter.

People forget that Israel funded Hamas.

Time for UN troops to step in and protect Palestine.

If nothing is done then it means the rule of law means nothing.

Israel is the most efficient, prolific childkilling machine on the planet, why should THEY continuously be rewarded?