Starmer’s support for Palestine

[Steph888]

Am I alone in seeing this as one of the darkest days in UK history?

Never before did I think I’d end up living under a government who reward terrorism.

Starmer and Labour are grotesque. History will not be kind to them. They have now empowered all terrorists and their supporters.

We deserve such better than this reprehensible government. They disgust me.

Marxists are not bothered about much. Bothering takes brain power.

And Hamas aren't fucking evil?

Really?

The Irgun were a recognised terrorist organisation, they used bombs and targeted innocent people, and their actions led to the establishment of Israel. Their leader Menachem Begin eventually became prime minister.

I understand why governments are doing this but I think it is unlikely to work.

Most of this situation has been very deliberately manufactured by Hamas, they are making decisions, including deliberate war crimes against their own people, that are intended to manufacture a mass killing of their own people.

Hiding munitions in hospitals, hiding soldiers with civilians, these are war crimes - and I don't mean metaphorically, I mean according to international law - because they inevitably mean it becomes impossible to differentiate military from civilian targets and will result in the exact kinds of horrors laws of war were written to prevent.

So that has now been successful, there is no reason for Hamas to change their tactics and it will solidify their hold on the Palestinian people, who they are entirely willing to sacrifice as martyrs for their cause.

I would also dispute that they are starving.

All the footage I have seen from Gaza shows well-fed people going about their business using donkey carts pulled by well-fed donkeys.

If they were starving, those donkeys would have been killed and eaten.

I’m not sure how it goes from this to peace. Hamas feel they have victory but then what happens

On top of everything else, how could Palestinians hold an election and elect a new govt whilst this conflict is still going on?

I know Hamas aren’t a legitimate govt but they can’t get a legitimate govt under this all ends.

We need to end the conflict before they can do that.

So in order to end the conflict we have to recognise that Palestine is a state - even with the illegitimate govt they have. Lots of countries have terrible govts and we don’t say they don’t exist.

Sorry but this is horrifying. You wanted Irish people in NI to wait generations to be treated with basic dignity in their own country? Until they could “lie down and breed” enough people to have a majority?

The NI people who became terrorists didn’t just do so because they wanted a united Ireland, with everything else having been rosy. They were being subjected to systematic discrimination in a multitude of ways ever since Ireland was petitioned. It took a very long time before they went from that to terrorism (those who did, which was by no means everyone or even a majority).

I’m not saying terrorism is ever justified, but your post is incredibly offensive.

This.

If Israel hadn't been killing a disproportionate amount of people per hostage held, then people would be marching for the hostages to be released.

It's like when you have 2 kids. One has wound up the other and wound up one hits the other in the face with a frying pan. The one with the frying pan is the one that gets told off. If they hadn't of done that, the one winding up the other would have been told off.

My suggestion is a lot less offensive than the fighting that killed 3,600 and wounded 30,000 people.

Even their own countrymen/women in Ireland didn't support them.

Barrister and media personality Joe Brolly recently set social media alight with some comments taken from a longer interview. Brolly asserted that the Northern Ireland Troubles saw the emergence of a southern orthodoxy whereby "nationalists in the north were to blame".

He was then joined by one-time MP and long-time rights activist Bernadette McAliskey, who argued that "the northern Catholic was and still is looked on by the southern state as not worth the trouble". The words aroused a strong sense of approval among a considerable demographic within the north; many of whom feel that southern Irish society did indeed 'fail' them.

Nonetheless, it is clear that a considerable majority of southerners were critical of the PIRA and wider republican violence and it is this, rather than blanket rejection, which forms the feeling of historical alienation among a certain northern cohort. As with most northern Catholics, the southern Irish could see the logic of the civil rights movement as a response to the situation faced by the minority there. But they could not see the proportion or moral justification in endlessly bombing and shooting British soldiers, and more especially policemen, civil servants, and members of the public.

Going even further back in history an often forgotten fact about the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 was that the Pope of the day supported the Protestant King William of Orange against the supporters of the deposed Catholic King James II of England.
This unusual alliance came about because the Papacy, then a world power, was at odds with King Louis XIV of France, who was an ally of King James.
It is said that a Mass of deliverance was celebrated in Rome after King William's victory.

Yes, I think you have to imagine this scenario without the identities of the people involved. If Israel were 'People A' and Palestine were 'People B', who would most people feel most sympathetic with?

Yes, representatives of B did something appaling to A and a handful of hostages from A remain in terrible peril and conditions, if they are alive at all. But A's cities are still standing, they have schools, hospitals, running water, universities, cultural institutions. No one there is dying of starvation. A has one of the most advanced and best funded armies in the world. B isn't even allowed an army, though a milirary they are armed by some rich and powerful countries.

Is it surprising if people are thinking primarily of the status of country B?

If Israel hadn't been killing a disproportionate amount of people per hostage held, then people would be marching for the hostages to be released.

Hey. Pssst. Wanna buy a bridge?

In case it's useful to anyone - here is a proforma email to send to your MP to request them to clarify their stance now that the UK formerly recognises the state of Palestine:

Dear . . . . .

In light of the action by the Labour Government to state that the UK now formerly recognise the state of Palestine, and as a member of your constituency, I am writing to you, as my MP, to request that you:

1. disavow your recent vote to ban Palestine Action and to nullify all actions against people peacefully protesting in solidarity with Palestinians
2. acknowledge that Israeli actions clearly fit the legal definition of genocide
3. join other Labour MPs in signing Early Day Motion 1310 calling for the immediate suspension of all UK arms sales to Israel.

Can you please update me on your stance and intentions on each of these 3 requests along with your justification for each?

Thank you

Your view of Ireland is as limited as your view of Palestine.

Thank you for this. I will email my local MP and get their opinion.

Make sure you correct my misspelling of 'formerly' to 'formally' 😉

That's horrendous. It's frightening and disgusting that some posters on here seem to think the same. I despair of humanity sometimes.

So now the U.K. has recognised Palestine it needs to ensure it upholds the law ie the authorities within the state work to free the hostages, to condemn the terror in the newly recognised state

I've given up on these threads, it's just too depressing.

Each side thinks "You either get it or you don't" and no one will budge, ever, so what's the point?

The same old arguments round and round in circles, but I get particularly fed up with "ah but the 40 beheaded babies was debunked, ya" and "How dare the Jews of all people repeat the Holocaust in Gaza and then pretend to be human."

Conflicts, maybe especially Middle Eastern conflicts, are hard to make sense of at the best of times, but the way some people make sense of this one takes my breath away at times.

and now Macron!!

People are waking up at last

Oh do be quiet 😴

This is just a load of random facts you know, it’s not addressing what I said or the point you were previously making at all.