Starmer’s support for Palestine

[Steph888]

Am I alone in seeing this as one of the darkest days in UK history?

Never before did I think I’d end up living under a government who reward terrorism.

Starmer and Labour are grotesque. History will not be kind to them. They have now empowered all terrorists and their supporters.

We deserve such better than this reprehensible government. They disgust me.

Considering the views on Muslims, homosexuality and women in some Jewish sects I wouldnt be waving that lack of homophobic thinking and misogyny two high in comparison.

Exactly this and no OP, you are not alone in your opinion, It's a cowardly and foolish move by Starmer.

Bearing in mind Israel has been stealing land from the Palestinians for over 40 years, it doesn't look like Netanyahu just wants to wipe out Hamas.

Israel has some of the most high tech military equipment in the world. They could easily done targeted attacks without all the collateral damage, they simply didn't want to.

Cue people now putting up Palestinian flags in the UK in celebration. This isn’t going to end well……

Well no you’re wrong in that. There was never a unified Irish state before British occupation. In fact what the British did was remarkably similar to the Israeli Government. There’s a lot of similarities between the plantations of the 16th and 17th centuries and the settlements today.

There are specific criteria in international law for recognition of statehood. That is what should guide whether states are recognised or not.

I think we have to be realistic - a two state solution is the only viable solution. I have always been sympathetic of the Jewish cause - one cannot possibly comprehend the horrors of the Holocaust. And really the persecution throughout history - there is no debate on this. And no one can condone the attacks of October 7th. Absolutely not. No one with a soul would think that those attacks are deserving and even that some action needed to be taken in retaliation. However, we can’t sit here and pretend that Israel's response is a measured response. How can we look the other way whilst ordinary Palestinians are systemically being wiped out. Fitting Hamas and terrorism cannot come at the cost of a whole people, otherwise we are equally at fault.

not everyone agrees with you - after the above the British gov decided to bring in legislation that prohibits their army being held accountable or investigated or prosecuted for such crimes (not that it was routine before - actually incredibly difficult to get it done, several faux inquiries held first, complete opposite to your suggestion that it’s easy). I’m curious why there is zero outrage about that - I presume for large swaths of the population it is okay if it’s their side.

From a purely domestic perspective, I see it as nothing more than Labour trying to keep large numbers of their voters appeased.

It's much more complicated from an international perspective, not least because the Palestinians rejected the two state solution. But here's a question - if it does happen, will they forget their oft stated desire to wipe Israel and Jews from the map?

And yes, what Netanyahu's government is doing is beyond reprehensible.

How does a two state solution realistically work if the other side is systematically stealing your land and displacing your people? Asking nicely doesn't appear to have worked and that's why we now have a terrorist group in charge of Palestine.

This!! In spades.

Ok. Skip the lies also please.
It wasn't decades ago - Hamas assumed control in 2007.

So that's 19 years that the good Palestinian people have had to rise up and remove them from power. How have they done?

Anti-Hamas protests in the territory took place in 2025, in summer 2023, 2019, and from 2011 to 2012. They have never been large (typically 100s or a few thousand people from a population of millions).
I think this does make the people of Gazs complicit in the subsequent activities of Hamas, just as we would be complicit if Reform went ape-shit once elected and attacked France.

These placard waving protests have had no effect except reprisals by Hamas. There has been IIRC no civil disobedience campaigns nor armed struggle to remove Hamas. There is no partisan movement trying to remove these terrorists.

So let's say the Palestinian people are innocent dupes. No reason not to.
In which case they are horribly oppressed and we should be pushing for the removal of Hamas for their sake alone.

But we all know that they are dug in so deeply, in the infrastructure, the organisations, etc that removing them by force cannot be done without massive harm to the civilians - even if it were done by the most Palestinian friendly army.

It would be easier if they could all be let into Egypt while the war rages but Egypt does not want that.

One irony I suppose of Palestine being a country in its own right must be that it will have an army with its soldiers in uniform , distinguished from civilians, and it will operate under the Geneva conventions in terms of people it has taken prisoner.
Yeah - I can dream.

This is exactly my view.

Hamas are abhorrent. The hostages absolutely should be released. The State of Israel should exist and should be able to defend itself. Any views to the contrary are anti-Semitic, and Jewish people the world over have experienced increases in anti-semitism in recent years without any possible justification. All of this is true.

None of that undermines the same right to statehood for the Palestinian people. It does not follow that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. Israel must exist within the confines of international law. Its defence of itself must be proportionate.

The inability to hold all these views at the same time is incomprehensible to me.

Honestly, I don’t pretend to know the solution. I can’t even begin to understand the generational trauma those people live with.

What I do know is the prime minister of my own country is a virtue signalling prick who likes to make grand statements to win favour and sits on whichever side of the fence gives him the most popularity.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8641wv0n4go

@Steph888 Hamas aside- (and what they have done is blatant terrorism and unforgivable!) HOWEVER There is now enough proof that genocide has been committed in Gaza.
Stop using Hamas as an excuse to justify a crime against humanity.

This not down to public opinion, this is down to proof and hard evidence.

The insanity and bloodshed in the Middle East needs to stop from both sides.

That's not quite correct.

British influence in Ireland began in 1169, when Norman knights arrived on the island in search of conquest and colonization.

So try blaming the French not the British !

Cue? They've been doing that for nearly two years.

But Netanyahu isn’t with Hamas? You seem to be describing Hamas there.

In 2023 South Africa filed a case at the International Court of Justice, the highest court for disputes between states, accusing Israel of genocide. The case will take years to reach a verdict and in the meantime it has ordered Israel to take action to prevent acts of genocide as it wages war against Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip.

There has long been a link suspected between South Africa and Hamas and these seems to support that -

https://thestar.co.za/news/2025-07-22-serious-accusations-against-south-africa-alleged-collaboration-with-hamas-sparks-diplomatic-storm/

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2023-11-30-hamas-leaders-presence-in-sa-for-a-palestine-solidarity-convention-stirs-controversy/

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/383568

I don't disagree. The situation unfortunately seems insoluble. And meanwhile as ever, it's the women and children who suffer most.

they are not rewarding terrorism. They are trying to do something to stop the horrific killing and dying of an entire people.

In my opinion it's too little too late.They should have withdrawn support from Netanyahu's rogue government long ago before Netanyahu and co thought they could do whatever the hell they want to whomever they want. They already have blood on their hands as do all of us who have just watched complacently too scared to speak up in case we get accused of anti semititism.

I want all the best for the people of Israel, many of whom I am sure are as horrified by the scale of atrocities as the rest of us but anyone still supporting the actions of the Israeli government is devoid of any humanity.

@Kpo58 "How does a two state solution realistically work if the other side is systematically stealing your land and displacing your people?"

In 1949 Jordan annexed the West bank without a murmur from the international community.
Can you explain why Jordan got a free pass on this but Israel doesn't ?

Funny how history is wheeled out to defend Israel, but rubbished for everyone else. I won't be lectured on Irish history by someone with no knowledge of it. But I am aware that the IDF are not civilians- thanks to their governments orders they are murderers.

What the IRA eventually became was a product of the oppression of the Irish, by an English government who did everything they could to wipe out their language, their culture, and - if they would not submit - their lives, and targeted innocent civilians in that. Terrorists are not born. They are made. The English government made Irish terrorists. The Israeli government has made Palestinian terrorists. It continues to make them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o.amp

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

https://theconversation.com/is-israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-we-asked-5-legal-and-genocide-experts-how-to-interpret-the-violence-262688

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/28/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-say-israel-based-human-rights-groups

One thing I’ve realised is many random Mumsnetters spew hateful inaccurate propaganda every time Palestine is mentioned, and suddenly become timid about how little old Israel is only defending itself (yes, like the video I saw yesterday of another toddler mutilated by Israeli bombs and snipers).

Israel has committed war crimes and that is a fact.

Palestine deserves to be recognised (and has been for much longer than Israel, just Starmer acting like he’s done something really brave when in reality it’s too little too late).

Recognising Palestine is not enough. Stopping the genocide should be the priority.

I am appalled that the UK govt has taken this action - there are hostages still held , this is giving into a terrorist group. I think it is totally wrong and send out the wrong message.