Starmer’s support for Palestine

[Steph888]

Am I alone in seeing this as one of the darkest days in UK history?

Never before did I think I’d end up living under a government who reward terrorism.

Starmer and Labour are grotesque. History will not be kind to them. They have now empowered all terrorists and their supporters.

We deserve such better than this reprehensible government. They disgust me.

if you scroll right back, (probably another ten pages by the time I finish this post), it was in context of a point that got brought up, and then discussed, and I was bringing the examples to explain my point. At this point the thread has moved on well away from that, so yes, now it's off topic ¯\(ツ)/¯

OP I completely agree with you. It’s a sad day for all parties involved. This will bring the Palestinians even further from the actual government they should have, the only ones winning are Hamas. I don’t know why anyone is celebrating unless you believe Hamas should continue ruling Gaza. This could be a death sentence for the remaining hostages, I’m so sorry to their families.

@GladioliGreen "Where are Israels borders? "

Here - https://ontheworldmap.com/israel/large-detailed-map-of-israel.html

Why is the phrase 'Wrong side of history' so prevalent in these very divided topics?

The people using that phrase always seem so sure they are on the 'right side', which always rings an alarm bell for me - mistaking opinion for fact, the Dunning Kruger effect, echo chamber thinking - pick your phrase. Anyway, any time I hear someone say it, I think hmmmm totally lacking in any humility or critical thinking - and overly worried about looking good.

Hamas orchestrated the October 7th attacks knowing full well the hell that Netanyahu would unleash on the innocent people of Gaza. Hamas wanted this reaction from the world. It wanted their people to suffer. It wanted terror. Now Starmer has just played right into their hands.

Israelis deserve peace, Gazan Palestinians certainly deserve peace. Neither will ever be allowed to live side by side peacefully and without the threat of violence so long as they continue to be governed by barbaric, war mongering monsters. We can all agree on that surely.

If it doesn't achieve anything why is Netanyahu so vehemently against it. Even Rubio has threatened countries that recognize Palestine.

Hamas agreed to the last ceasefire which led to the release of the hostages a deal that Israel had agreed to a month previously but then Netanyahu changed the conditions and bombed Qatar.

Gvir himself has said he has sabotaged Hamas ceasefire deals and Matt Miller said Netanyahu also sabotaged them. He never wanted a ceasefire because then Trump's plan of redevelopment would not be carried out.

Of course there’s an element of revenge in what Israel are doing. They are trying to bring down the regime who entered their country, not to attack government buildings or the IDF, but to act like cowards and take out some young festival goers. But they are also then saving the Palestinians from the regime who are treating the people they claim to represent so badly.

So supporting Palestine is wrong? Explain.

I am equivocal about the idea of recognising a Palestinian State. It doesn't do much in many ways and the two-state.solution has been turned down continually since Arafat's days (tbf, that was a rubbish deal, though he was also corrupt).

What i am disgusted by though is that this recognition was not dependent on anything except bizarrely NOT agreeing a ceasefire.

How can any government that paints itself as caring not tie this recognition to the surrender of any and all hostages. These are civilians; non-combatants, and held in defiance of every single statute out there, and who have been tortured and starved throughout, even before the removal of the Palestinian aid organisation.

Hamas have celebrated the decision today. They see it as a victory.

As for pp I’m not sure how this brings peace closer.

What do you propose as an alternative?

I am not actually Jewish as in I don’t practice Judaism, however I have a long line of Jewish ancestry. My father’s side of the family came to ROI after being displaced in the Second World War (as Jewish Romani).. many of my wider family still practice Judaism.

NONE of us are supporting the actions of Israel.

It isn’t one or the other. What is happening now is a genocide and looking away is akin to those who looked away during the holocaust.

I really had hoped never again meant never again. Obviously not.

This. The wilful detachment from reality some people appear to be operating under is staggering.

This. The wilful detachment from reality some people appear to be operating under is staggering.

Agreed.

It feels to me that Starmer’s just doing what all those other countries are doing in recognising a Palestinian state. Jumping on the bandwagon. Like when he went down on one knee for Black Lives Matter.

Yeah I’m not sure you’re getting my point?

Every country recognises Irish statehood. And have done since the early 1920s. Even though that state came about following a campaign that in modern language was a terrorist campaign.

The posters claiming that recognising statehood rewards terrorism need to ask themselves if they would also deny statehood for Ireland and other countries whose foundation was linked in whole or in part to terrorism.

Also if that’s you’re line of thinking the only solution (the final solution.. sounds familiar) is total of eradication of Muslims, not just in Gaza. Because all that’s happening is you are creating an atmosphere where people are going to want retribution for their family/homeland/people.

If you want the eradication of terrorise this isn’t the way to do it.

that’s how they get them. They take marginalised people (Muslim kids who feel like outsiders in the community they live in) and they say “look what they did to your people, look at all the people who turned away, no one cares about you” and they indoctrinate them

THIS ISNT GOING TO END TERRORISM

A bit unfair that one. The official IRA that was the ideology of the elected 1918 Dail split from the provisional IRA that carried out the campaign of violence in 1969. IRA terrorism, as as most would understand it, was by the Provisional IRA. The Official IRA rejected armed struggle in 1971. The Provisional IRA and their political wing never gained power in any political institutions in Nothern Ireland or the Republic, prior to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement and their cease fire. They still haven't been in National Government in the Republic. So if you consider the IRA period of violence against the British State post 1969 as terrorism by a different IRA than 1918, it didn't get any election results.

Even Israel themselves (and provided no evidence for this ) that Hamas was stealing 15-25% of aid. They then initiated a complete blockade around 6 months ago to prevent this. USAID said they found no evidence of mass stealing by Hamas either.

Now do I believe Hamas are siphoning aid, absolutely.
Do I believe Israel have prevented aid coming into Gaza, killed aid workers, prevented safe passage of aid (not to mention the murder of 2000 of those going to aid sites) also absolutely.

Because Great Britain invaded Ireland and occupied it. Like it did countless other countries.

So of course Ireland should have been recognised as an official state. Which it always would had been before and would have remained had Great Britanian kept out of it!

The last elections in Palestine were in 2006. 75% of population is under 25 years old and would not have been able to vote at that point.

I’m not referring to the Provisional IRA, I’m talking about the Official IRA and the war of independence. In modern terminology that would be described as terrorism. Terrorism that resulted in the establishment of the Irish statehood.

If the argument is that recognising statehood for a state formed in the midst of terrorism is rewarding or supporting that terrorism then someone needs to explain why that shouldn’t extend to other states.

Ok, I see maybe 5 guys in London, 2 with Palestinian flags. Even if we assume they are celebrating Oct 7th, that is not really mass celebrations in the streets of London. The prior poster also said this happened on Oct 7th before Israel had even begun to retaliate. The Jerusalem Post actually says about this screenshot:
“Tellingly, the worst week for antisemitic incidents in the UK was the week following the October 7 massacre – well before Israel’s response had reached its peak.”

The week following Oct 7th. You know by Oct 10th, the bombardment of Gaza had killed more civilians and more children than Hamas had?

Perhaps it wasn’t celebration so much as solidarity?

I think you missed my point, the countries I listed were founded on terrorism,
Vive La Revolution