Starmer’s support for Palestine

[Steph888]

Am I alone in seeing this as one of the darkest days in UK history?

Never before did I think I’d end up living under a government who reward terrorism.

Starmer and Labour are grotesque. History will not be kind to them. They have now empowered all terrorists and their supporters.

We deserve such better than this reprehensible government. They disgust me.

History will not be kind to people like op who deny a genocide is occurring

Netanyu has said he wants to wipe out Hamas, not Palestine.
It's often pointed out there is a different (Hate Hamas, Love Palestinians, right?)

Do you think we should also not recognise statehood for Afghanistan?

The talking would be massively preferable to the fighting but I don’t think recognising Palestine as a state will move that forward.

Hamas dont need to exist at all.

Sure.

You state there is no genocide in Gaza. International bodies are pretty much in agreement now that this is untrue. Even if you wanted to argue that it wasn’t a genocide, it’s just semantics at this point. They are displacing, starving and abusing an entire state of people. There is no moral justification for the suffering.

UN agencies and humanitarian aid on the ground (not affiliated with Hamas) report that Israels block aid attacks on convoys, and border restrictions are severely limiting aid even in areas with no military targets. This isn’t even disputed at this point by any country other than Israel. Even the US president states that “people are really starving”.

but the main reason I found your views so objectionable, is because they lack humanity and empathy. But I wonder if you aired these views with friends or family - that you already know that they’re not acceptable amongst civilised compassionate people?

He will drop even further in the polls once he has to acknowledge £3 trillion reparations.

But….starvation caused by who? He didn’t elaborate. But we know the reason is due to the fat cat millionaire leaders of Hamas diverting aid into their own coffers to sell on at inflated prices to their own starving people, or monetary aid put in their already bulging pockets. Have you seen these super wealthy leaders commandeering the situation from their safe havens in the Middle East? It’s enough to make your stomach turn.

War criminals rarely agree that they are war criminals. What matters is action, not words. And his actions have gone far far beyond targeting hamas.

Do you also think Nelson Mandela didn’t need to resist apartheid?

But it wouldn’t. It would just give the green light to say the behaviour of Hamas in all this is acceptable. I honestly despair of this government. They’ve stooped to a new low today, and I hope it leads to annihilation of their party come the local elections next year.

You are on a thread about recognising Palestine posting this antisemitic thing happened, that antisemitic thing happened. Why? What has that got to do with this thread about recognising Palestine? The comments on this thread were criticising Israel, you were the one bringing up random events and then you complain when people don't centre your off topic comments in their posts. There have been tens of threads about antisemitism that would be far more suitable for your posts if that is what you want to post about.

Also where is this Palestinian state exactly? What are it’s borders? This is a nonsense being fed to people for no discernible reason, just signaling. There is genuine work to be done to get rid of Hamas, to stabilise and rebuild Gaza to introduce proper governance etc. but no, that all looks too difficult so we’ll just put out a letter saying we recognise a state. It’s pitiful and a sign of a complete lack of thought and actual leadership imo.

You state there is no genocide in Gaza. International bodies are pretty much in agreement now that this is untrue.

Can you tell us who has said this? I didn't think there has been 'pretty much agreement' on this at all, but happy to be corrected.

The IRA? You forgot a few other letters there at the top of your moral high ground UVF, UDA, UFF and the Red Hand Cammdono all British Terrorists organisations.

They already did when all rushing not to possibly be considered anything close to anti semitic and have stood by and allowed Israeli government the arrogance to behave how they have over the last two years.

And international actions have wider impact. I mean imagine if the UK was over run next week by the Spanish and they claimed they owned it. Im sure the Government would like to think the rest of the world would say ah ah thats not allowed!

USA 🇺🇸 , France 🇫🇷, Russia 🇷🇺, Spain 🇪🇸, Italy 🇮🇹, India 🇮🇳, Netherlands 🇳🇱 to name a few

Actions matter more than words, but also you should listen to the words and watch the actions of Netanyahu’s cabinet.

I was responding to a post that said Netanyahu has stated he wants to wipe out all of Palestine and claim the land. This is demonstrably untrue.

The actions of Israle line up with wiping out Hamas - which actions do you mean?

@wrongthinkeryou are literally denying that there is a genocide going on but I’m the one that hateful. At least I won’t be on the wrong side of history.

If we had a government equal to Hamas then I would be asking other countries to save us from the hell they created. The Palestinians are as much victims of Hamas as they are of Israel. If my government stole aid meant for me and my family, and hid under my home using us as human shields, I would expect countries to try and overthrow our government, as Israel are trying to do.

I know everyone likes to call this a genocide but it's not. Technically it's a massacre and there's an important distinction.

A massacre is the mass killing of a large number of people, often with extreme cruelty, while genocide is a specific legal term defined by the intent to physically destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group, in whole or in part. A massacre can be part of a genocide, but not all massacres are genocides, as genocide requires the specific intent to eliminate the group itself.

Israel's aim is the total destruction (genocide) of Hamas.
The massacre of Palestinian civilians is an awful byproduct of that aim, conducted in a densely populated area. Israel could stop, but so also could Hamas by laying down arms and returning the (bodies of the) hostages.

I don't think it has helped that generally the western world watched the murders and kidnappings on Oct 7 and almost immediately rejoiced with Hamas instead of standing by and weeping with Israel. Those things happened before Israel's horrific retribution that is claiming the lives of Israelis as well as Palestinians.

I think once we did that we lost any moral right to tell them how to retaliate and empowered the awful Netanyahu who can invoke the existential nature of the conflict.

He doesn’t speak for me.

How can our government recognise a terrorist state? I’m appalled. Is Starmer bowing down to the loony lefties, the anti-Semitic party members left over from the Corbyn era?

Exactly this. It’s a trade off. He welcomed and feted Trump whom the left in his party hate with a passion. To save his skin, he then has to pull something out of his arse to appease them, so by recognising a Palestinian state he has sold his soul to the devil, and keeps his position safe. For now…..

Israel arent trying to overthrow Hamas for the benefit of the Palestine people. They don't give two shits about them.