To think the social contract has completely broken down?

[KenAdams]

It seems as though everything if affected, from parking in disabled spaces when you don't need them to talking loudly in train quiet carriages to not tolerating people that are different or have different views to you or caring if they are drowned or tortured.

I'm not sure if it was COVID that ramped up the every man for himself mentality but everywhere just seems like a cesspit at the moment.

Of course it could just be the places I frequent but I travel a lot and I don't even think its a UK thing, it seems to be everywhere.

I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way.

I don’t understand why facing an uncertain future means you have to litter and be disrespectful to people. Why is it always “well people are behaving inconsiderately because of the government”. I don’t litter because I was taught that chucking shit all over the floor is wrong, makes things unpleasant for everyone and I wasn’t raised in a barn. I’ve lived under Labour and conservative governments, I’ve been utterly skint and very comfortable. Not once did I think “y’know what I’m going to be an anti-social twat because I have to live on those 5 for a pound noodles for weeks at a time”.

It’s bollocks isn’t it, people behave like this because they were poorly brought up and everyone’s terrified of saying anything incase they get stabbed.

We are a civilian population and it’s been a long time since we truly faced having to fight for survival. It’s something many, especially the older cushioned generation, struggle to understand.

Society is being destroyed. Debates are gone. Reason is gone. The concept of a group of people that you should be nice to is going. They are not nice to you after all. The concept of a group is going! That’s why government and politicking matters.

(And long term damage to the environment via littering is something short-lived humans need a longer-term society and education system to grasp).

I’m polite too and meet some polite people. I also meet a lot of impolite people. Perhaps geography impacts perception of this; I live in a busy part of the South East and opening doors for others, saying thanks if you’ve stood aside to let people pass, not littering, picking up your own dog poo seems to be a thing of the past. The odd person does it, obviously, but generally it feels very dog eat dog now.

I agree with you. The morals you’re taught and modelled through childhood typically remain instilled. They shape your whole life.

Lots of parents care and lots don’t. So lots of children care and lots don’t. But I do also think society and the people you’re around regularly can influence you too.

You soon stop thanking people when no one else does.

I think it varies a lot around the country. I live in a village in the south east and find most people to be polite, considerate and community minded. The local young people seem to be generally reasonably behaved and hard working and ive never had issues with squabbles with my neighbours. I often find i hardly recognise what people describe on mumsnet and it really worries me that we are becoming a divided country with some much poorer areas bearing no resemblance to the standard of living in the affluent south east

We have that problem on our common with people driving across while others are sunbathing. They say "it's our common too". Right, respect it then.

I agree.

I certainly saw it begin with my generation. I knew that if I got told off at school my parents would side with me and have a go at school. I was physically taught to be disrespectful, “respect is earned”
My DH on the other hand was brought up as the generation above and if he’d been told off at school he’d have been guaranteed a second telling off at home.

I feel quite lucky to have witnessed two very different families as it’s made me question things for bringing my own children up.

Probably less troubled than medieval times - i'd say standard of life is pretty good these days - we are living in extraordinary times

I think our little country is just too crowded.

Houses being built everywhere so open spaces shrinking.

Houses are really expensive and any being built seem to be on smaller and smaller plots so you can hear neighbour noise even if detached

Roads are busier. If I go out during the day I am always taken aback at how busy everywhere is even on a Monday at 11am for example or Wednesday at 2pm. It's like nobody goes to work anymore or something

Basic services are becoming scarce. Like getting a gp appointment used to be easy peasy and now it's like a competition with 300 people all trying to get 5 available appointments.

Police standards seem to have gone down (I understand why as nobody wants to do this job anymore) so it seems people are getting away with shoplifting, anti social behaviour etc more which in turn I think breeds resentment from people who are law abiding. I mean I don't shoplift and never have but keep hearing stories of how you can walk in and take stuff and walk out and nobody will stop you and the police won't attend either. So what - I can just stop paying for food and there will be no consequences. WTF am I continuing to pay then like a mug (you get the drift)

Even policeman don't look like policeman anymore. I'm in my fifties so okay I probably sound old but in my head policeman are tall, slim, good character, strong, calm and reassuring, no tatoos or beards. Smart, ironed uniforms.
The ones I see nowadays are all short, overweight, beards, tatoos, crumpled uniforms. I think policing used to be seen as something to aspire to and whilst the pay was never amazing, it used to come with a really good pension. Now I think that is gone and so the youngsters are thinking why would I want to do a dangerous job for mediocre pay and average pension. Can't blame them. Of course the police have had to drop their standards to recruit now and so it feels like even the backbone ie the law is becoming more 'undisciplined, less smart, less well mannered, less aspiring'

Added into that you have politicians behaving badly (RR crying, AR tax dodging) and all the 'stop the boats' I think just highlights that people are feeling squashed, sqeezed, overlooked, disrespected and need to 'fight for themselves'

I haven't been dating for over 10 years now but I keep hearing stories about how men are avoiding marriage and just using woman for sex, woman are expected to do degrading sex stuff as 'normal' and respect just seems to be out of the window with ghosting etc

The young generation who I always expect to be healthy, bright, ambitious, full of energy and striving to build their lives and families seem to be disappearing. Partly because of the internet, the job market, house prices, easy sex without commitment. I do really feel sorry for them. I went to uni and got a grant (no fees), was able to buy a house and build a career. It didn't seem that easy at the time but compared to now I think I was very lucky in lots of respects.

I also think UPF have made people ill. Not just overweight but lacking in nutrients and health which in turn of course makes them less likely to be ambitious or hardworking or goal orientated.

I am early retired in my fifties and I so appreciate my mornings when I sit quietly drinking my coffee and reading the news /mumsnet before facing my day. I don't love my house but I own it outright (and will move at some point to another I like better). I'm not rich but I've no money worries either really. I am hiding away more and more from 'life' and 'noise' because it all just seems overwhelming. That might partly be my age but the world does honestly seem louder and more overbearing and more unruly and scary.

I’m in a town in the south east, and also very much recognise what you describe. It certainly isn’t the case that manners are “a thing of the past” around here .

Many of the "older cushioned" people you refer to grew up just after the war when food was severely rationed and many people had no hot water or even an inside lavatory, let alone a TV or washingmachine. If they are "cushioned" in any way it is because they worked hard and paid into the system over many years and are now reaping the benefits of it. They could have been bitter and twisted by the privations but they just got on with it. A brilliant example set for those coming along behind.

@tommyhoundmum I took this to mean the generation after this, now known as boomers.
I also think it’s pretty relevant of each generation after this too. None of us have ever suffered any actual hardship.

Yes, however for most of us on here, though, life probably started off a a little less complex than things are now.

I think our society is too obsessed with trivialities - rather like the Roman tactic of giving the populace plenty of “bread and circuses “. The huge proliferation of entertainment media, social media and virtual reality takes up the attention of too many people.

I think generally people are less well-informed than 30-odd years ago - when there were just a few TV channels and more of us watched the news, David Attenborough and series and documentaries about history and science. There wasn’t the option of just following your own narrow interest or echo-chamber via an algorithm, or sitting in front of endless Netflix dramas.

I think it has had an effect on our political/constitutional knowledge and our democratic participation. The link between our lives and our social responsibilities has been damaged. A lot of people are content to take no interest or part in the democratic process.

I agree. There are so many easy mantras - and you see them a lot on MN - which let people off the hook:

• people’s brains aren’t fully mature till they’re in their mid-20s (so…we don’t expect people to know right from wrong till they’re 27?)
• they might be neuro-diverse. Well, they might be- but it’s not necessarily an excuse for bad behaviour. I speak as the parent of a ND daughter.
• ”Why do you care? It’s none of your business.” If you believe that ‘no man/woman is an island’, or in community, then obviously other people’s choices and actions sometimes are.

Being let off the hook isn’t always good for us, individually or as a society.

My mistake @tommyhoundmum I always forget that the privations experienced 60 years ago by those currently experiencing 40 year retirements have never been equalled before or since 😩

Realistically, how many people are likely to be enjoying a 40 year's retirement?

I try to respond in a genuine way but can see I am responding to a closed mind.

Exactly. My parents were early boomers. Born in 1946. Dad died aged 65. Mum aged 69. No 40 year retirements going on there. They must be people’s perfect boomers. Dead before they could claim much (almost any in my dads case) state pensions.

Rest assured, some MNs will still find a reason to berate them

IMO there a few easy solutions:

Bring back the birch in schools.

Allow parents to spank their children when appropriate.

Bring back the local bobby on the beat who everyone knows and allow them to give kids a clip around the ear for minor misdemeanors.

All crimes should be dealt with properly, including vandalism and shoplifting.

Bring back the gallows for serious crimes such as murder and serial rapists. And make prisons actual prisons again, no free playstations or free choice of food. Solitary confinement or hard labour, and bread and water.

I’m a boomer, born just after WWII. You were right in an earlier post, some of us did grow up when there was rationing. Everything was used to the fullest, for example knitwear unravelled and knitted into something else. I retired at 60 from full time work, but with a pittance from the state I found different part time jobs to bring some money in. My retirement has been 15 years so far. Lots like me!

Pleased to say my DC will be able to retire well before state pension age, there were far more educational and career opportunities for those born in the 70s, and a much higher awareness of pensions. They were born when we lived in a rented house with the only toilet out In the yard, and one coal fire for heating. Changed days indeed.

@JinnyAwesome 💜

Maybe, but also compulsory training for a trade or other job while in prison.

Closed minds from that generation? That’s a laugh. How open were yours when buy to let started and all we heard then were the endless accusations of selfishness because we wanted to be able to buy our own places just as you did rather than pay for your pensions? When was the last time you were living in damp mouldy rentals and had to throw clothes that had gone irreparably mouldy? The long retirements of that generation are a fact, it’s what most U.K. welfare money is spent on and why we can’t afford decent education and decent teachers for our kids. Speaking of which are you really going to continue advocating for free training for prisoners while women who work hard through school and then pay to work for basic ‘training’ in hospitals are then chucked off with ‘no jobs available’ because we can’t afford nurses any more?

It’s one self justification after another with your generation. I’ve heard them all for 30 years. You will go down in history as the most selfish ever - not really surprising as a kickback after the war generation, but still destroying all of civilization is one hell of a grave marker for you all.

Incidentally for anyone particularly interested in the wool market, recycled wool is sold as a commercial product now. While fleeces are burned in the fields because farmers can’t afford to take it to market, while landlords take in profits hand over fist. Bringing us back to the thread topic, our economy is broken. This is economic collapse. There’s been no ‘management’ about it for anyone who actually works for a living.