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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Backlash against Trans women

306 replies

ITVeveningnewsclip · 18/09/2025 19:24

(Story on ITV news about drag performer who died after taking drug ketamine, not suicide, just a regular user it seems who took more than usual.) Thus post isn't about him.

Anyway, bloke during story moaned that 'we are currently seeing a backlash against trans at the moment, particularly trans women' (men), and 'that's not a world I want to live in'.

I mean seriously, the TRA has been abusive to women for years for even mentioning any concerns, yet now trans women are victims (again). Perpetual victims it seems. These men are frankly ridiculous. I get fed up of the men in dresses and their victimhood.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
SirBasil · 23/09/2025 20:33

Misogyny would be hating all women because they are women. I loathe and despise the pick-me-handmaidens because they are championing men over women.

HTH

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:31

SirBasil · 23/09/2025 20:33

Misogyny would be hating all women because they are women. I loathe and despise the pick-me-handmaidens because they are championing men over women.

HTH

I certainly am not fond of the women who even see the world as a battle of men vs women, which I haven't failed to notice is usually most of the feminist types. Power seems to be all they care about. I realised a long time ago how futile it is and how depressing it can be to go down that road.

We fight for what we believe are rights and power in society but despite these sometimes well intentioned efforts the very fact we have to appeal to men to be 'given' said rights, in its very nature shows that any power and rights we believe we actually have are nothing more than the illusion of such, owing to the fundamental case that it is 'given' to us by men. Power that is given by men by just as easily be taken away by men as they will always have more force.

ThatBlackCat · 24/09/2025 10:40

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:31

I certainly am not fond of the women who even see the world as a battle of men vs women, which I haven't failed to notice is usually most of the feminist types. Power seems to be all they care about. I realised a long time ago how futile it is and how depressing it can be to go down that road.

We fight for what we believe are rights and power in society but despite these sometimes well intentioned efforts the very fact we have to appeal to men to be 'given' said rights, in its very nature shows that any power and rights we believe we actually have are nothing more than the illusion of such, owing to the fundamental case that it is 'given' to us by men. Power that is given by men by just as easily be taken away by men as they will always have more force.

usually most of the feminist types. Power seems to be all they care about.

Wow. Just wow. The vicious hatred of women just pours from you. Women simply want fair rights, not 'power'. It's the male of the sex who want power.

SirBasil · 24/09/2025 10:44

I certainly am not fond of the women who even see the world as a battle of men vs women, which I haven't failed to notice is usually most of the feminist types. Power seems to be all they care about. I realised a long time ago how futile it is and how depressing it can be to go down that road.

look if you don't understand actual feminism and are prepared to read/hear twaddle from people who are about as feminist as Nicola Sturgeon, that's on you. It isn't about "power" or "getting the upper hand" or "hating men"

it is about equality and equality of opportunity.

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:48

SirBasil · 24/09/2025 10:44

I certainly am not fond of the women who even see the world as a battle of men vs women, which I haven't failed to notice is usually most of the feminist types. Power seems to be all they care about. I realised a long time ago how futile it is and how depressing it can be to go down that road.

look if you don't understand actual feminism and are prepared to read/hear twaddle from people who are about as feminist as Nicola Sturgeon, that's on you. It isn't about "power" or "getting the upper hand" or "hating men"

it is about equality and equality of opportunity.

OK, but we have that now, same rights, equal in law, so I don't understand why we aren't grateful for that. Why do we come across as we're never happy no matter what we're given

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:49

ThatBlackCat · 24/09/2025 10:40

usually most of the feminist types. Power seems to be all they care about.

Wow. Just wow. The vicious hatred of women just pours from you. Women simply want fair rights, not 'power'. It's the male of the sex who want power.

Edited

Viscous hatred? Please try to be genuine, my post contained nothing of the sort.

Helleofabore · 24/09/2025 10:57

I notice that the bulk of the evidence demanded has still been ignored.

Now we are distracted by the ‘well it is just that …’.

Well yes, no shit Sherlock that power given by men can be taken back by men. That is what is happening on many levels. Including power being taken by male people who claim to be female and that they have access to female single sex provisions, including women’s officers at universities, organisations and in political parties, where it is their own group’s aims that become prioritised. All because some people dismiss the significance of what is happening.

When will it be acceptable for female people to fight to have single sex provisions remain single sex? Will it be acceptable when we have sorted VAWAG? Really? When will that be? And in the mean time those victims of VAWAG don’t get the services they need to heal and live with less distress.

If we cannot campaign now without being told it is a non-issue, when will it be a ‘big’ enough issue? When it is too fucking impossible to unravel it all ? It seems to be the case for some people.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/09/2025 11:01

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:48

OK, but we have that now, same rights, equal in law, so I don't understand why we aren't grateful for that. Why do we come across as we're never happy no matter what we're given

We've had rights under the Equality Act which haven't been upheld for the last 15 years.

I'll be happy when those rights are respected, and when our Prime Minister says, "Of course people have the right to protest, but this government says in the strongest possible terms that women are entitled to the sex based rights enshrined in the Equality Act and we will not be removing those rights either now or in the future."

Helleofabore · 24/09/2025 11:01

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:48

OK, but we have that now, same rights, equal in law, so I don't understand why we aren't grateful for that. Why do we come across as we're never happy no matter what we're given

Because we no longer have equality in opportunity. If male people are included as female people for access to any female single sex provision it removes the opportunities for female people.

When you have male people in female sports, prisons, rape crisis services, and even changing rooms or toilets, it causes harm to female people. If not direct physical harm and distress then through female people self excluding.

If you have male people as ‘women’s officers’ the aims of that role now includes any male who wants access to the services that role is there to ensure are created and prioritised.

The list is long. This is just a small sample.

Helleofabore · 24/09/2025 11:04

FFS. If women are being reported to the police and having crimes or NHCI recorded against them for correctly stating someone is male when they are indeed male but they call this misgendering, this is a sure sign that women don’t even have the right anymore to discuss their needs.

Talk about power of male people!! Giving women police records for saying this person is a male person, is all about male power.

ThatBlackCat · 24/09/2025 11:09

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:49

Viscous hatred? Please try to be genuine, my post contained nothing of the sort.

If you really think your hatred of women isn't so palpable and so transparent, you are delusional.

ThatBlackCat · 24/09/2025 11:10

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:48

OK, but we have that now, same rights, equal in law, so I don't understand why we aren't grateful for that. Why do we come across as we're never happy no matter what we're given

Us women don't have that right now, you men do.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/09/2025 11:12

Helleofabore · 24/09/2025 11:04

FFS. If women are being reported to the police and having crimes or NHCI recorded against them for correctly stating someone is male when they are indeed male but they call this misgendering, this is a sure sign that women don’t even have the right anymore to discuss their needs.

Talk about power of male people!! Giving women police records for saying this person is a male person, is all about male power.

This.

Helleofabore · 24/09/2025 11:12

If you genuinely think there are no issues alicealig start making coherent arguments rather than simply denying there is an issue. And how about you go back and read the links people have linked with an abundance of evidence of harm just in a few areas where male inclusion is an issue.

would you like us to link up all the sports evidence?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/09/2025 11:15

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:48

OK, but we have that now, same rights, equal in law, so I don't understand why we aren't grateful for that. Why do we come across as we're never happy no matter what we're given

We've had rights under the Equality Act which have not been upheld for the last 15 years.

Why would we be happy about that?

I will be happy when trans identifying men respect the fact that we have the right to exist in a way that does not include them, to have spaces and sports which do not include them, and not to have to pretend that they are women.

I will be happy when the Prime Minister stands up and says, "Women have sex based rights under the Equality Act and we will not be removing these rights either now or in the future, no matter how unhappy that makes some people."

I will be happy when the Labour MPs suggesting that women's rights should be removed are suspended from the party.

Is that clear?

SirBasil · 24/09/2025 11:29

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:48

OK, but we have that now, same rights, equal in law, so I don't understand why we aren't grateful for that. Why do we come across as we're never happy no matter what we're given

"grateful"

no.
I was fired for being pregnant, i have been turned down for promotions because i have children, etc etc

I'm not "grateful" for crumbs, i am ANGRY about crumbs and will remain so until there is true equality.

You must be very young or have cheese in your ears to have missed the non-equality of the last 25 years.

Namelessnelly · 24/09/2025 11:42

Alicealig · 24/09/2025 10:48

OK, but we have that now, same rights, equal in law, so I don't understand why we aren't grateful for that. Why do we come across as we're never happy no matter what we're given

Why should women be grateful for having equal human rights?

KilkennyCats · 24/09/2025 12:01

Namelessnelly · 24/09/2025 11:42

Why should women be grateful for having equal human rights?

Clearly some people see women as less than human.

ThatBlackCat · 24/09/2025 12:19

Men think we should be 'grateful' for the bare minimum. Fuck 'em!

Helleofabore · 24/09/2025 13:09

Alicealig · 21/09/2025 15:18

I don't believe women are disadvantaged in the slightest, I largely see the trans issue as a 'non-issue'. I don't agree that trans identified people should be getting any of this recent attention, people are the sex they are born. Wear what you want and call yourself what you want. That's the beauty of freedom we all enjoy.

Let's look at some of the different areas where women are being disadvantaged because of male access to provisions. Just to head off the 'it is only a few' arguments too, it doesn't take more than 1 male in a single sex provision to impact many female people.

Sport - this is incredibly well documented now. There is now a group of women who are collating all the elite results from across the world by sport on https://hecheated.org/index.html. However, this team also then tracked back the progress of just how many female athletes were potentially harmed in any way by the inclusion of a male athlete. What they found was just 2 male athletes in Maine negatively impacted over 1,600 girls. In 2024, they calculated the following which is very much an underestimation:

"Men and boys have participated in over 8,731 women's competitions.
They have placed 1st at least 2,903 times and top three at least 4,747 times.
They have stolen at least $1,600,087 in prizes and 446 awards...."

The gains in sport has happened because female athletes and their supporters have been campaigning for a very long time to remove male people from female events.

Representation - this was actually one of the major aspects for the For Women Scotland case. The 'sex balanced' boards in the Scottish Government. Under that law 'sex' was said by the Scottish Government to be gender. So that a board or panel that had 8 places which had 8 male people would still be considered gold standard of female representation if 4 of those male people had said they were female.

In the UK Labour Party a few years ago, this actually did happen with a LGBT+ board. That board had 75% male people but was supposed to be 'sex' balanced.

There are enough male people in 'Women's officer' roles around the UK to be a major concern, they are there of course, because they said they are women. Some of those 'women's officers' have actively prevented women who reject that male people can be female from participating in discussions or accessing events. How is 'representation' of women?

By the way, the reason those male people take those roles is to then feed into the major political party 'women's officer' roles or to lead the Women's groups in those parties. Those roles are feeder roles into political roles.

We currently have the Green Party who have male people in leadership roles in the Green Women. But sure.... female people are being really well served apparently.

Then we also get the male people who are being recognised for their excellence in 'female' awards. Male inclusion in the Top x Women awards. Male sportspeople being given 'Women's player of the year' awards.

How great is that?

The Supreme Court ruling came about because a group of women, who met on MUMSNET took the Scottish Government to court. This action has already had significant impact and it will have a great deal more when organisations are forced to comply with the law.

Education - currently in our schools we have female students dehydrating themselves so that they don't have to use the toilets which are now mixed sex. A year or so ago, there were protests by male and female students to return UK school toilets to being single sex provisions. Did you miss this?

If our girls are dehydrating at school, how do we expect them to perform?

Also, boys who say they are girls demanded that they be allowed to sleep in girl's accommodations. And to include those boys who said they were girls in sports, some primary schools changed their sports days to only run mixed sex events where boys raced against girls. How is this supposed to encourage girls to participate in sports?

Even our children are involved in campaigning to reverse these poor decisions.

Prisons - this has been well covered already. But how is it safe for women to be locked in a prison where they have to share that space with male people. Particularly when those female prisoners have a very high likelihood of being sexual violence surivivors or domestic violence survivors.

Even after the Supreme Court has clarified that when a service is designated as being female it should be female, there are still reports of some male prisoners in the female prisons in the UK.

I believe I posted an article about a woman who complained that one male prisoner used to never shower with the curtain pulled, and if I remember the story correctly, would be showering with an erection. Those women in the prison had nowhere to go.

But apparently, this is not disadvantaging women.

It was only through women campaigning (including female ex-prisoners and ex-prison governors) that the policy on male people accessing female prisons has been progressively changed. After Isla Bryson, a change went through that no male sex offenders were to be allowed to be housed in a female prison. Now with the SC judgement, there should be no male prisoners left in female prisons.

Women's health services - there has been significant issues where female health services have been compromised by allowing male people access to provisions for female people. This includes not only hospital accommodation, but also covers when a female patient requests a female health professional.

There is an Mumsnet auditing group at the moment who is going through to check which NHS trusts are abiding by the policies and the guidance.

However, there has been policies that have told staff that if a female patient complains that there is a male patient in their female hospital room, that staff must tell that female patient that there is not and to 'educate' that female patient.

We also have had a woman have her surgery cancelled at one London hospital because she requested an all female care team. We have had another woman used as an example of a hateful bigot because she asked to make sure that she only had her mammogram team being all female staff.

Even worse, we have male health care professionals declare that they will present themselves to a female patient if that patient has asked for a female HCP. And will only leave if the patients directly rejects them. While also then in a past instance, laying a complaint against a dementia patient for misgendering them. And that is just Dr Upton of the NHS Fife trust. There are other examples, it is not hard to find.

The only way these issues are being exposed is because some very brave female patients have been vocal about their treatment or women have made complaints about the services. Or in the case of Upton, a brave nurse took her employer to court.

Women's rape / domestic services - when female people have needed to access rape services, or refuges for domestic abuse victims, they have been forced to accept male people. Either as a fellow service user where the service is advertised as 'single sex', or as a service provider when a male person has declared that they are a female person and been employed as a female person.

This is also well documented. The Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre and the Brighton and Hove Survivors Network are very public cases. If you don't know about them look them up. There is plenty about each of these on MN.

There have also been user reports of women stuck in refuge accommodation where male people who have accessed the service have wanked watching porn in the next bed in a shared room and have been abusive in other ways. If you read enough of these survivor stories, it is very clear that there is a problem.

But if you choose not to read widely or to dismiss incidences as being irrelevant or just one, I guess you show that you actually don't centre the care of women and girls and will accept some to be harmed because of your own personal belief about what women should be aiming for.

Shall I go on? There are plenty of other areas that I have not covered such as women being targeted for police action by activists who want them to STFU, women's events being cancelled because they were targeted, women losing their jobs and their opportunities because they didn't agree that some male people are female people.

Or will it all just be dismissed because it didn't happen, or it wasn't serious enough, or it is just the one, or she didn't deserve to be treated with respect as she is not a good person, or any other fucking weak excuse to continue to deny that there is an issue.

Helleofabore · 24/09/2025 13:43

Power!

https://thecritic.co.uk/how-i-was-secretly-logged-as-a-criminal-by-police/

"So I made a subject access request, and to my astonishment discovered that they had recorded an actual crime — criminal harassment — flagged with the hate crime aggravator “transgender”. It was coded “outcome 15”, police jargon for when a crime has been committed, the suspect has been identified and the victim supports prosecution, but “evidential difficulties” make it impossible to investigate."

So.... women are getting police records that will impact their futures.

But nothing to see here.

Is it because it didn't happen, that Helen Joyce was not good enough to be respected and we shouldn't bother, that it is just one or a hand full of women, it not 'really' disadvantaging women ... what? What excuse will be used to dismiss this example?

Helleofabore · 24/09/2025 18:31

Here we are

"Ministers have admitted that five trans women – biological men – are being held in the E Wing of HMP Downview in Surrey, despite concerns they could pose a risk to female prisoners."

and

But HMP Downview’s independent monitoring board has reported serious safety and welfare concerns, including a shortage of staff to cover one-to-one supervision of the male prisoners when they are mixing with the women prisoners.

This is just one of the UK prisons where they have continued to house male prisoners with female prisoners. Although this one has its own wing, there is still contact between male and female prisoners.

archive.today/ockdQ

Helleofabore · 25/09/2025 08:33

Here is the Lib Dems latest. A award designated to acknowledge an exceptional woman in the party was awarded to a male person after a weekend where the party “voted to oppose a full debate on women’s representation in the party, with trans activist members claiming the debate would allow transphobic views to be heard.

https://archive.is/6sJuc

Yet apparently, women are not being disadvantaged at all.

If a political party cannot even allow a debate about female representation in the party, and gives awards meant to recognise female people for their efforts in a world still dominated by negative sexist discrimination against female people it should be cause for concern. Particularly from a party that has plenty of power at local authority level and may end up again being in a parliamentary coalition in power.

Nothing to see here.

ITVeveningnewsclip · 25/09/2025 08:45

Helleofabore · 25/09/2025 08:33

Here is the Lib Dems latest. A award designated to acknowledge an exceptional woman in the party was awarded to a male person after a weekend where the party “voted to oppose a full debate on women’s representation in the party, with trans activist members claiming the debate would allow transphobic views to be heard.

https://archive.is/6sJuc

Yet apparently, women are not being disadvantaged at all.

If a political party cannot even allow a debate about female representation in the party, and gives awards meant to recognise female people for their efforts in a world still dominated by negative sexist discrimination against female people it should be cause for concern. Particularly from a party that has plenty of power at local authority level and may end up again being in a parliamentary coalition in power.

Nothing to see here.

Heck. Sort yourselves out Lub Dems. Men can never be women.

I like what the Lib Dems stand for with regard to many things. Please don't ruin your chances by putting men in frocks first. Real women matter.

OP posts:
ITVeveningnewsclip · 25/09/2025 08:50

Helleofabore · 24/09/2025 13:09

Let's look at some of the different areas where women are being disadvantaged because of male access to provisions. Just to head off the 'it is only a few' arguments too, it doesn't take more than 1 male in a single sex provision to impact many female people.

Sport - this is incredibly well documented now. There is now a group of women who are collating all the elite results from across the world by sport on https://hecheated.org/index.html. However, this team also then tracked back the progress of just how many female athletes were potentially harmed in any way by the inclusion of a male athlete. What they found was just 2 male athletes in Maine negatively impacted over 1,600 girls. In 2024, they calculated the following which is very much an underestimation:

"Men and boys have participated in over 8,731 women's competitions.
They have placed 1st at least 2,903 times and top three at least 4,747 times.
They have stolen at least $1,600,087 in prizes and 446 awards...."

The gains in sport has happened because female athletes and their supporters have been campaigning for a very long time to remove male people from female events.

Representation - this was actually one of the major aspects for the For Women Scotland case. The 'sex balanced' boards in the Scottish Government. Under that law 'sex' was said by the Scottish Government to be gender. So that a board or panel that had 8 places which had 8 male people would still be considered gold standard of female representation if 4 of those male people had said they were female.

In the UK Labour Party a few years ago, this actually did happen with a LGBT+ board. That board had 75% male people but was supposed to be 'sex' balanced.

There are enough male people in 'Women's officer' roles around the UK to be a major concern, they are there of course, because they said they are women. Some of those 'women's officers' have actively prevented women who reject that male people can be female from participating in discussions or accessing events. How is 'representation' of women?

By the way, the reason those male people take those roles is to then feed into the major political party 'women's officer' roles or to lead the Women's groups in those parties. Those roles are feeder roles into political roles.

We currently have the Green Party who have male people in leadership roles in the Green Women. But sure.... female people are being really well served apparently.

Then we also get the male people who are being recognised for their excellence in 'female' awards. Male inclusion in the Top x Women awards. Male sportspeople being given 'Women's player of the year' awards.

How great is that?

The Supreme Court ruling came about because a group of women, who met on MUMSNET took the Scottish Government to court. This action has already had significant impact and it will have a great deal more when organisations are forced to comply with the law.

Education - currently in our schools we have female students dehydrating themselves so that they don't have to use the toilets which are now mixed sex. A year or so ago, there were protests by male and female students to return UK school toilets to being single sex provisions. Did you miss this?

If our girls are dehydrating at school, how do we expect them to perform?

Also, boys who say they are girls demanded that they be allowed to sleep in girl's accommodations. And to include those boys who said they were girls in sports, some primary schools changed their sports days to only run mixed sex events where boys raced against girls. How is this supposed to encourage girls to participate in sports?

Even our children are involved in campaigning to reverse these poor decisions.

Prisons - this has been well covered already. But how is it safe for women to be locked in a prison where they have to share that space with male people. Particularly when those female prisoners have a very high likelihood of being sexual violence surivivors or domestic violence survivors.

Even after the Supreme Court has clarified that when a service is designated as being female it should be female, there are still reports of some male prisoners in the female prisons in the UK.

I believe I posted an article about a woman who complained that one male prisoner used to never shower with the curtain pulled, and if I remember the story correctly, would be showering with an erection. Those women in the prison had nowhere to go.

But apparently, this is not disadvantaging women.

It was only through women campaigning (including female ex-prisoners and ex-prison governors) that the policy on male people accessing female prisons has been progressively changed. After Isla Bryson, a change went through that no male sex offenders were to be allowed to be housed in a female prison. Now with the SC judgement, there should be no male prisoners left in female prisons.

Women's health services - there has been significant issues where female health services have been compromised by allowing male people access to provisions for female people. This includes not only hospital accommodation, but also covers when a female patient requests a female health professional.

There is an Mumsnet auditing group at the moment who is going through to check which NHS trusts are abiding by the policies and the guidance.

However, there has been policies that have told staff that if a female patient complains that there is a male patient in their female hospital room, that staff must tell that female patient that there is not and to 'educate' that female patient.

We also have had a woman have her surgery cancelled at one London hospital because she requested an all female care team. We have had another woman used as an example of a hateful bigot because she asked to make sure that she only had her mammogram team being all female staff.

Even worse, we have male health care professionals declare that they will present themselves to a female patient if that patient has asked for a female HCP. And will only leave if the patients directly rejects them. While also then in a past instance, laying a complaint against a dementia patient for misgendering them. And that is just Dr Upton of the NHS Fife trust. There are other examples, it is not hard to find.

The only way these issues are being exposed is because some very brave female patients have been vocal about their treatment or women have made complaints about the services. Or in the case of Upton, a brave nurse took her employer to court.

Women's rape / domestic services - when female people have needed to access rape services, or refuges for domestic abuse victims, they have been forced to accept male people. Either as a fellow service user where the service is advertised as 'single sex', or as a service provider when a male person has declared that they are a female person and been employed as a female person.

This is also well documented. The Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre and the Brighton and Hove Survivors Network are very public cases. If you don't know about them look them up. There is plenty about each of these on MN.

There have also been user reports of women stuck in refuge accommodation where male people who have accessed the service have wanked watching porn in the next bed in a shared room and have been abusive in other ways. If you read enough of these survivor stories, it is very clear that there is a problem.

But if you choose not to read widely or to dismiss incidences as being irrelevant or just one, I guess you show that you actually don't centre the care of women and girls and will accept some to be harmed because of your own personal belief about what women should be aiming for.

Shall I go on? There are plenty of other areas that I have not covered such as women being targeted for police action by activists who want them to STFU, women's events being cancelled because they were targeted, women losing their jobs and their opportunities because they didn't agree that some male people are female people.

Or will it all just be dismissed because it didn't happen, or it wasn't serious enough, or it is just the one, or she didn't deserve to be treated with respect as she is not a good person, or any other fucking weak excuse to continue to deny that there is an issue.

My goodness so many examples through so many areas. How can people deny it?

OP posts: