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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Backlash against Trans women

306 replies

ITVeveningnewsclip · 18/09/2025 19:24

(Story on ITV news about drag performer who died after taking drug ketamine, not suicide, just a regular user it seems who took more than usual.) Thus post isn't about him.

Anyway, bloke during story moaned that 'we are currently seeing a backlash against trans at the moment, particularly trans women' (men), and 'that's not a world I want to live in'.

I mean seriously, the TRA has been abusive to women for years for even mentioning any concerns, yet now trans women are victims (again). Perpetual victims it seems. These men are frankly ridiculous. I get fed up of the men in dresses and their victimhood.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
Helleofabore · 21/09/2025 18:40

Here is another example of how women and girls have been disadvantaged. This time is through the employment of a man as the CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis centre. The one who declared that bigots should reframe their trauma, while previously calling female people who rejected that male people can be female too ‘bigots’.

This man took the role when it was designated as being only for female people under the EA exceptions. And was also campaigning to have the choice of same sex medical examiner removed from law for Scottish rape victims - while CEO of ERCC.

https://4w.pub/survivors-of-sexual-abuse-retraumatized-by-reframe-your-trauma-remark/amp/

In the same piece on May 19 2021, the Sun reported about Wadhwa's appointment as Chief of Executive Order of Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, which sparked another controversy, since the post is for a role advertised as “reserved for a woman only candidate.” After Wadhwa was hired as a CEO, women’s rights activists called for an “equalities investigation” and urged people to “write to the Equality and Human Rights Commission to investigate.” The campaigners said that Wadhwa has no gender recognition certificate and has not “undergone gender reassignment surgery.” In this video, at 2:31, he can be seen saying that he did not tell his future employer that he was male during the hiring process. For that reason, Wadhwa has no “legal right to the position” at Edinburgh Rape Crisis centre because he does not meet “Scottish requirements to legally be considered a woman.”

Survivors of Sexual Abuse Retraumatized by 'Reframe Your Trauma' Remark

“Sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well,” says Rape Crisis centre CEO.

https://4w.pub/survivors-of-sexual-abuse-retraumatized-by-reframe-your-trauma-remark/amp/

Binglebong · 21/09/2025 18:41

GarlicPint · 19/09/2025 01:18

I understand what you're saying.

Can you separate hatred of someone's actions from hatred of the person? That's what you're seeing here.

Very, very few Mumsnetters - or people in the UK, I would guess; we're still a tolerant nation - actually hate trans people.

Those who hate the existence of trans people tend to be vehemently conservative individuals, willing to fight transgressions of their rigid beliefs in sex-limited social roles. Most such people are religious fundamentalists, more likely to be found in America or the Islamic world than here.

Britain, like the rest of Western Europe, suffered hundreds of years of religious intolerance and is deeply committed to steering clear of that shit. We ditched our residual homophobia fifty years ago now: you'd be pushed to find anyone so defensive of masculinity that they revile gay or feminine-leaning men. People like that still exist, of course, but their views are unpopular.

The transphobia of which you speak isn't hatred of men who feel like they're women. We don't hate women who feel like royalty, children who feel they are horses, or the messed-up guys on the Tube who feel they're being followed by demons. Our collective response is a shrug. If we're in a good mood, we might ask them if they're okay. That's about it.

We expect equivalent tolerance. If the 'royal' woman demands obeisance, we refuse. She's free to believe we are her subjects, but not to force others to role-play with her. If someone played along with the child by saddling her up, we'd report them for cruelty. The haunted guy may believe his fellow passengers are demons, he may not attempt to exorcise them. The trans woman's free to believe s/he has changed sex, not to require everyone else to agree they really have.

I don't believe it is phobic or hateful to say "Yes, I understand this is how you feel. If it makes you happy, great! I'll ask you, though, to understand that my sex is genetically female and some things are limited, for reasons of safety and fairness, to people of one genetic sex or the other." They may find it a bit upsetting but, in my experience, generally accept that this is reasonable.

The ones who call it transphobic are demanding that everyone must role-play along with them. This is unacceptable: they are, effectively, requiring me to deny my own sex, my physical reality. In doing this, I'd have to surrender my rights to privacy, fairness and things like medical safety (and more, because being physically female has ramifications in all areas of life).

I've never hated another person in my life. I think it is reasonable to hate beliefs and behaviours that harm me (or other people) or seek to impair my rights. I've met a couple of influential Muslim leaders. I'd say they are good men: intelligent, thoughtful, morally observant. They believe in FGM. I respected who they are as individuals, enjoyed their discourse on relative rights and obligations, and I fucking hate their commitment to cutting out women's clitorises. You can understand that, can't you?

We can respect the human being, accept that their beliefs are sincere, and hate the effects of their beliefs.

Beautifully written.

ITVeveningnewsclip · 21/09/2025 18:46

Helleofabore · 21/09/2025 18:40

Here is another example of how women and girls have been disadvantaged. This time is through the employment of a man as the CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis centre. The one who declared that bigots should reframe their trauma, while previously calling female people who rejected that male people can be female too ‘bigots’.

This man took the role when it was designated as being only for female people under the EA exceptions. And was also campaigning to have the choice of same sex medical examiner removed from law for Scottish rape victims - while CEO of ERCC.

https://4w.pub/survivors-of-sexual-abuse-retraumatized-by-reframe-your-trauma-remark/amp/

In the same piece on May 19 2021, the Sun reported about Wadhwa's appointment as Chief of Executive Order of Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, which sparked another controversy, since the post is for a role advertised as “reserved for a woman only candidate.” After Wadhwa was hired as a CEO, women’s rights activists called for an “equalities investigation” and urged people to “write to the Equality and Human Rights Commission to investigate.” The campaigners said that Wadhwa has no gender recognition certificate and has not “undergone gender reassignment surgery.” In this video, at 2:31, he can be seen saying that he did not tell his future employer that he was male during the hiring process. For that reason, Wadhwa has no “legal right to the position” at Edinburgh Rape Crisis centre because he does not meet “Scottish requirements to legally be considered a woman.”

Imagine surviving rape and then having a TIM telling you to 'refrained your trauma'.

@Alicealig does that sit OK with you too?

The real examples go on and on and on and on. Women have been pushing back against TIMs and their supporters for a long time and will continue, even if you claim it's all 'hysteria'. Women are standing up for other women and girls. It's sad that some women? (You could of course be a TIM) feel women dont deserve respect, privacy and dignity.

OP posts:
Alicealig · 21/09/2025 18:46

ITVeveningnewsclip · 21/09/2025 18:21

So not forced to change in front of anyone then. As per the article they were offered alternative changing spaces were it a genuine cause of worry or concern but obviously all decided they were actually OK getting changed in the same space the trans person. It's a non issue unless you decide to make it such.

Soontobe60 · 21/09/2025 18:47

Alicealig · 21/09/2025 18:46

So not forced to change in front of anyone then. As per the article they were offered alternative changing spaces were it a genuine cause of worry or concern but obviously all decided they were actually OK getting changed in the same space the trans person. It's a non issue unless you decide to make it such.

Good grief - you’re clearly a TRA.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/06/us/ncaa-upenn-lawsuit-lia-thomas

ITVeveningnewsclip · 21/09/2025 18:49

ITVeveningnewsclip · 21/09/2025 18:46

Imagine surviving rape and then having a TIM telling you to 'refrained your trauma'.

@Alicealig does that sit OK with you too?

The real examples go on and on and on and on. Women have been pushing back against TIMs and their supporters for a long time and will continue, even if you claim it's all 'hysteria'. Women are standing up for other women and girls. It's sad that some women? (You could of course be a TIM) feel women dont deserve respect, privacy and dignity.

It was 'reframe your trauma' the word check changed it.

OP posts:
Murdoch1949 · 21/09/2025 18:49

There are so many highly vocal 'transwomen' activists. Some of this subgroup make zero attempt to look feminine, which is supposedly their desire, instead wear their beards with pride. Others seem to be cos playing as women, wearing what they seem as feminine clothing - low tops, short skirts, fishnet tights - while having the jaw, brow, hairline and bulk of a navvy. I am sure there are many actual transwomen who have struggled with their gender and want nothing more than to get on with their quiet lives. However, they have allowed their brethren to highjack their cause. Transwomen should not be in women's spaces - prisons, hospital wards, DV & Rape centres etc. They should not be competing with biological women in sports, literary awards, etc. They are biological men, as the Supreme Court attested.

ITVeveningnewsclip · 21/09/2025 18:53

Alicealig · 21/09/2025 18:46

So not forced to change in front of anyone then. As per the article they were offered alternative changing spaces were it a genuine cause of worry or concern but obviously all decided they were actually OK getting changed in the same space the trans person. It's a non issue unless you decide to make it such.

Are you a TIM or TRA

The girls forced to change in front of a male. You keep ignoring it....

https://www.facebook.com/FoxNews/posts/this-isnt-right-cassidy-carlisle-says-she-was-forced-to-change-in-a-locker-room-/1054820733174455/

1.6M views · 19K reactions | ‘THIS ISN’T RIGHT’: Cassidy Carlisle says she was forced to change in a locker room with a biological male in 7th grade — and told she’d risk being late to class if she didn’t. The transgender student mysteriously vanished...

‘THIS ISN’T RIGHT’: Cassidy Carlisle says she was forced to change in a locker room with a biological male in 7th grade — and told she’d risk being late to class if she didn’t. The transgender...

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1357095515329898/

OP posts:
ITVeveningnewsclip · 21/09/2025 19:00

@Alicealig

This male was asked to use a curtain when changing in the girls changing room. He said it was unfair on him since he identified as female and should be able to choose whether to change with or without curtain for the privacy and dignity of the girls (real girls), they don't want to see his penis, they dont want him looking at their bodies as they change. He had a private area behind a curtain but that wasn't good enough for the TIM, he had to be able to change with the girls, why would he force that on girls? Strange behaviour bearing in mind he was male biological

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/03/illinois-high-school-transgender-girl-locker-room-rules

He actually won the 'right' to force his presence on girls in private spaces. Absolutely disgusting.

High school ordered to lift locker room restrictions on transgender student

Palatine, Illinois, school district discriminated against student by forcing her to change her clothes behind curtain, US Department of Education decides

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/03/illinois-high-school-transgender-girl-locker-room-rules

OP posts:
ITVeveningnewsclip · 21/09/2025 19:05

Murdoch1949 · 21/09/2025 18:49

There are so many highly vocal 'transwomen' activists. Some of this subgroup make zero attempt to look feminine, which is supposedly their desire, instead wear their beards with pride. Others seem to be cos playing as women, wearing what they seem as feminine clothing - low tops, short skirts, fishnet tights - while having the jaw, brow, hairline and bulk of a navvy. I am sure there are many actual transwomen who have struggled with their gender and want nothing more than to get on with their quiet lives. However, they have allowed their brethren to highjack their cause. Transwomen should not be in women's spaces - prisons, hospital wards, DV & Rape centres etc. They should not be competing with biological women in sports, literary awards, etc. They are biological men, as the Supreme Court attested.

Indeed they are biological men. I think TIM is an accurate way of describing since they are not a subset of women. They are a sub set of men, TIM.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 21/09/2025 19:06

Alicealig · 21/09/2025 18:46

So not forced to change in front of anyone then. As per the article they were offered alternative changing spaces were it a genuine cause of worry or concern but obviously all decided they were actually OK getting changed in the same space the trans person. It's a non issue unless you decide to make it such.

I believe you are after examples of women being disadvantaged.

This scenario you are dismissing is women being disadvantaged.

The article says “A rainbow-coloured sign labelled “Inclusive Changing Space” was placed on the changing-room door and the nurses advised to use either the Ward Manager’s office or a patient discharge room which opens onto a busy ward corridor.”

So, not dedicated changing facilities which likely had direct access to toilets and showers if needed. And maybe direct access to their locker space.

You have dismissed their case because ‘they were offered alternative spaces’ while ignoring one was a person’s office space and another was a room that opened directly onto a ward corridor- neither was a change room.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 21/09/2025 19:09

GarlicPint · 19/09/2025 01:18

I understand what you're saying.

Can you separate hatred of someone's actions from hatred of the person? That's what you're seeing here.

Very, very few Mumsnetters - or people in the UK, I would guess; we're still a tolerant nation - actually hate trans people.

Those who hate the existence of trans people tend to be vehemently conservative individuals, willing to fight transgressions of their rigid beliefs in sex-limited social roles. Most such people are religious fundamentalists, more likely to be found in America or the Islamic world than here.

Britain, like the rest of Western Europe, suffered hundreds of years of religious intolerance and is deeply committed to steering clear of that shit. We ditched our residual homophobia fifty years ago now: you'd be pushed to find anyone so defensive of masculinity that they revile gay or feminine-leaning men. People like that still exist, of course, but their views are unpopular.

The transphobia of which you speak isn't hatred of men who feel like they're women. We don't hate women who feel like royalty, children who feel they are horses, or the messed-up guys on the Tube who feel they're being followed by demons. Our collective response is a shrug. If we're in a good mood, we might ask them if they're okay. That's about it.

We expect equivalent tolerance. If the 'royal' woman demands obeisance, we refuse. She's free to believe we are her subjects, but not to force others to role-play with her. If someone played along with the child by saddling her up, we'd report them for cruelty. The haunted guy may believe his fellow passengers are demons, he may not attempt to exorcise them. The trans woman's free to believe s/he has changed sex, not to require everyone else to agree they really have.

I don't believe it is phobic or hateful to say "Yes, I understand this is how you feel. If it makes you happy, great! I'll ask you, though, to understand that my sex is genetically female and some things are limited, for reasons of safety and fairness, to people of one genetic sex or the other." They may find it a bit upsetting but, in my experience, generally accept that this is reasonable.

The ones who call it transphobic are demanding that everyone must role-play along with them. This is unacceptable: they are, effectively, requiring me to deny my own sex, my physical reality. In doing this, I'd have to surrender my rights to privacy, fairness and things like medical safety (and more, because being physically female has ramifications in all areas of life).

I've never hated another person in my life. I think it is reasonable to hate beliefs and behaviours that harm me (or other people) or seek to impair my rights. I've met a couple of influential Muslim leaders. I'd say they are good men: intelligent, thoughtful, morally observant. They believe in FGM. I respected who they are as individuals, enjoyed their discourse on relative rights and obligations, and I fucking hate their commitment to cutting out women's clitorises. You can understand that, can't you?

We can respect the human being, accept that their beliefs are sincere, and hate the effects of their beliefs.

Fucking well said! 👏

FrippEnos · 21/09/2025 19:11

SirBasil · 21/09/2025 17:13

Also I don’t believe that trans people make up as much as 0.5% of the population. That would mean there’d be about 300 in the smallish town where I live. Nah, I’m not buying it.

i would love to see realistic, robust reliable stats on how many trans people there are. Not least because it helps councils/governments etc allocate funding for whatever it is they think they don't have.

But the TRAs have shot themselves in the foot there - i am experiencing schadenfreude by the bucketload here - because they insist on only gathering non-realistic, non-robust and non-reliable data. Their insistance on only documenting "gender ID" rather than sex (binary) and then if they want, the indication that they have a trans ID which is opposite to their natal sex, means that they can't make ANY claims about numbers. And if they do? all we need to say is: show us the data.

Their dogged insistance that nobody can tell because they all pass, coupled with their dogged insistance that Sex Realistic (sometimes known as GC) people are trying to eradicate them is a tautology.

I'm over it now. I call a man a man, and the term trans-identified-man or man-who-says-he's a woman (or TIW etc).

I know that this has been done to death.

But you will never get "realistic, robust reliable stats on how many trans people there are"

Because the definition of trans has become so wide and varied that it is meaningless.

HerNeighbourTotoro · 21/09/2025 19:15

ITVeveningnewsclip · 19/09/2025 08:30

Excellent post. Exactly.

Excellent echo in your echo chamber, I see you are not about to leave to hear other people's opinions!

MistyGreenAndBlue · 21/09/2025 19:19

Flutterbees · 19/09/2025 02:53

This. TRAs are trans women’s very worst enemy. They cause division, slap horrific labels on anyone who doesn’t 110% conform to their views, and insist on the erosion of the rights of 50% of the population for the benefit of less than 1% of the population. I feel for trans people who are just quietly trying to find their place and space in this world, and for women who are trying to protect their safety and the spaces they’ve fought to make safe.

I don't feel at all sorry for these so called "ordinary trans people" they stood back and allowed this because it benefitted them to do so at the time. Vanishingly few of them said "not in my name" because it WAS in their name and they knew it. So they looked away when TRAs came for women's rights and ignored the transing of vulnerable children. They tacitly agreed with all of it. No innocents in this movement except the children. No sympathy from me I'm afraid.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 21/09/2025 19:26

ThatBlackCat · 19/09/2025 07:08

In the same way a fox is vulnerable from other foxes. It does not mean he is as vulnerable as hens and should be in the henhouse. Even a vulnerable man has Male Privilege. (and male strength and height)

Yes this. And also women are NOT a sheild for vulnerable men. We are not the world's mum. Nor are we support humans for the "REAL humans" as many men seem to see things.

The answer is NO!

GarlicPint · 21/09/2025 19:50

MistyGreenAndBlue · 21/09/2025 19:26

Yes this. And also women are NOT a sheild for vulnerable men. We are not the world's mum. Nor are we support humans for the "REAL humans" as many men seem to see things.

The answer is NO!

Nor are we support humans for the "REAL humans" as many men seem to see things.

Do you remember all those articles and videos on "How to be a trans ally?" All aimed at women, of course, ordering us to spend hours teaching some bloke about makeup, boosting his insatiable ego, inviting him come everywhere with us wearing our clothes, and giving him money. Lots of money because "Being trans is expensive".

Reams and reams of instruction on how women must sacrifice their time, money, patience, social lives and bank accounts to the needy trans-identifying man 😡 That's before we even got started on the directions to lesbians on "How to pleasure your girlfriend's penis". Teen Vogue hit a string of new lows there.

Katkins17 · 21/09/2025 19:54

Some Sycophantic women/trans identifying men seem to be totally oblivious to the insults, abuse, threats and harassment women get for trying to hang on by our fingernails to rights that our mothers and grandmothers fought so fecking hard to achieve.

Why do they think that men, can just say ‘I’m a woman’ and years and years of being told to be careful of strange men, just vanishes….because the 6ft 2” man in front of us, has grown his hair, is donning a dress and lippy and is speaking in a high pitched voice.

But this is exactly what we’re being told. Evidently, every man with womanly feelz is just a rainbow farting unicorn, and women are raging bigots for feeling alarmed or upset to have to share a space, undress, competed or be locked up with these MEN.

So how dare we be ‘fed up’ when we’re told verbally, and by the actions of the powers that be that we have to all ‘put up or shut up…..’ or else !!!!

MistyGreenAndBlue · 21/09/2025 21:32

clotheslinefiasco · 21/09/2025 04:54

I don't like Trump at all but at least he's stopping the trans madness

What a shame he's not interested in stopping the guns madness Take a look

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/ I would imagine this is harmful to women a lot more than the 'trans madness'

But do carry on with your nuts agenda

Oooh. Just what this thread was missing. Some whataboutism. Are we at Bingo yet?

MistyGreenAndBlue · 21/09/2025 21:37

FrippEnos · 21/09/2025 05:33

So 0.5% of the population.

How many Trans people does it take to have a massive knock on affect on women's services?

Ans 1

And they can affect hundreds on women.

Why shouldn't women be allowed to be loud about this?

I think we are way past 0.5% at this point. There seems to be more of them every day and, if we include all the non trans activists and captured businesses and institutions, there are a lot more than 0.5% invested in this ideology now.

scorpiogirly · 21/09/2025 21:38

Male and female. Two sexes. That is all. Men will never be victimised more than women in this world.

ThatBlackCat · 22/09/2025 02:25

LoftyRobin · 21/09/2025 17:46

No im saying that the murderer was kept in prison because shes a violent murderer and no other reason that she believes or claims.

She was entitled apply for parole! Violent murderer or not, she was ENTITLED to apply for parole. She was TOLD the reason she couldn't was because she 'misgendered'.

ThatBlackCat · 22/09/2025 02:27

LoftyRobin · 21/09/2025 18:01

Nonit doesnt seem like I am frankly. She seems like a murderer who wants attention and can't follow rules, even when incarcerated.

Wow. How despicably LOW do you have to be to accused a Domestic Violence victim of wanting attention. Your psychopathic seething HATRED of women, especially DV survivors is off the charts. Anything, ANYTHING, to justify male privilege.

ThatBlackCat · 22/09/2025 02:29

LoftyRobin · 21/09/2025 18:02

The article makes it quite clear that she believes and claims these things. I think shes a murderer who just wasnt seen as fit for parole.

She was entitled to APPLY for parole. Whether she would then be rejected or not, is then up to the process. But she was denied due process. All your desperation and lies to pour scorn on a Domestic Violence VICTIM because you think Male Privilege is more important, says it all.