AIBU to think my handover should actually be a handover, not me being snapped at?

[Slightlymalted]

Everyone knows the job market is tough at the moment. I’ve read on here and elsewhere that the best way to get ahead is to reach out directly to companies you’re interested in and to lean on your network. I did exactly that at the start of the year and managed to line up some consultancy/advisory work.

It went well, and people at the company were really positive about me. They even said at the time that if there was a vacancy they’d love to have me properly on board. At that stage there wasn’t a role beyond the consultancy bit, so I just carried on.

Then the woman who heads up this area decided to resign. From what I gather she was competent enough, but she didn’t gel with the leadership team and there had been a bit of friction. The company seemed pretty happy about her decision to leave, and to be totally honest, so was I because it opened up this opportunity for me.

So now I’m doing the handover with her, and here’s where I’m struggling. The role is a lot bigger than I thought, she’s been juggling a huge amount. I really want to do well in this position, and I am committed to it, but I’m finding the handover process frustrating.

We’ve already had something like 15 hours of handover sessions. At first she was going through things properly, but now she’s very obviously losing patience. She’s started snapping and when I ask questions, instead of explaining, she just says things like “you just know this” or “you just do.” Which is not helpful when I’m trying to understand how things actually work in practice.

I appreciate she might feel resentful that I’m stepping into her role, but that’s not my fault, and I’m just trying to learn. I’m frustrated because I feel like I’m not being given the best chance to succeed, and I don’t want to start off badly in what should be a really positive step for me.

So, AIBU to expect her to stay professional and actually hand things over properly, regardless of how she feels about me? Would you raise it with the CEO/leadership that the handover isn’t being done properly, or should I just muddle through and piece things together myself?

It sounds as if the job was too much for one person and she had had enough and the leadership and the job and just wants to go - this isn’t personal to you

but what do you want from her she has spent 15 hours handing it over so far at some point you are going to have to start looking through and working it out as well

15 hours of handover is unreasonable and I'm not surprised she's losing patience. Normal procedure would be that she would produce written notes (which in my experience are very variable in terms of quality/level of detail) and then meet with you once or twice to go over any questions. It's not unusual to not even get that. You will not know everything about the job when you start it - that's normal and not her problem - and nor, tbh, is it her problem that you didn't understand the job scope until after getting it. It sounds like she has already done an awful lot, especially for someone not leaving on the best of terms.

15 hours of handover is more than I would expect. Has she done a document?

Yeah 15 hours seems alot. I'd stick to the headline 'must knows from her' and find out the rest myself from other team members or systems experts.

Just to add, I once took over a role that someone had been struggling with and it was because they were doing far too much, and doing it wrong. I stripped back the 78 page exec report for example to 6 max, redesigned it to be more user friendly, used excel to auto add figures rather than putting hundreds of graphs in and showed everything in very simple tables. Also, I corrected loads of errors in the original data which were throwing huge anomalies into the reports and streamlined the whole thing.

Do it your way, that's what they hired you to do.

I think she's been more than kind to you.

The reason why you feel like it's too much/you don't get it is because it's an unreasonable job that she's been struggling with for ages and having to make work... and here you are, expecting her to make it sound easy.

If it was easy, it wouldn't have pushed her into resigning.

You wanted her job, you got her job... you can't expect her to make it simple. 15 hours is more handover than many people would give you in those circumstances.

Complain about her, and she'll go off sick for the rest of her notice period, and then no more handover of any kind for you.

I think the issue is you're expecting her to train you. That's not what a handover is - but also, at head of department level no one is going to train you on the job as a whole at all. There will be no process manual for your role - that's part of being more senior.

15 hour is a LOT of time for handover at a mid to senior level from someone who is leaving.

I Mean this gently but you are coming over like you’re expecting to be spoon fed all answers like a junior but part of these jobs is figuring stuff out.

Yes, but it just replicates our sessions, there's no extra information in there.

15 hours of handover is absolutely batshit - is it you asking for so much of her time?

Also candidly whilst it is important for you to make a positive impression and hit ground running, it isn’t for her and indeed could be negative for her so why should she put herself out to make you look brilliant? So have a good hard think about the genuine gaps in your info work out what’s you really need from her that you can’t get from others/work out yourself and prioritise covering that in one final session.

Be super polite and grateful in approach to her, how much you appreciate all her support and all the time she has spent, she is such big shoes to fill, don’t want all her tremendous efforts to be waste by you getting it wrong day 1. Go in surly and the you should be a professional line you can forget any further help.

That’s the thing though, I don’t think she’s been overcomplicating it at all. If anything, the opposite. She’s already stripped everything back so far that there’s basically no documentation, no notes, no extra reporting. It’s all just in her head.

Which is fine if you’ve been in the role for years and know every quirk of the systems, but for me stepping in fresh it’s really difficult. There aren’t any proper guides, templates, or even much background info, so now when I ask how do you do this, she just says “its just a judgement call” and moves on.

So I think that’s why I’m struggling. She’s obviously very efficient in her own way and has got it down to the bare minimum, but that means there’s nothing for me to grab onto. I’m not trying to replicate her exactly, but I at least need a baseline to work from. Right now it feels like I’m trying to build a puzzle with the pieces turned upside down.

If you're taking over this, apparently quite senior, role, surely there are things you're supposed to know already? It can't be 100% new information and subject matters at this level, surely.

It sounds like you’re not ready for it tbh.

Is it a big jump up? 15 hours of handover and a written document is loads.

15 hours is a very generous handover period. Do you think you have the experience level to operate at this seniority? Based on what you say is missing you appear to lack the technical skills for the role. But with senior level experience usually one can “ run with it”.

You can if you want to tell the CEO, but as she’s leaving I doubt much can be done like pulling her up on it. Another posted said here, be extremely nice and learn what you can

It's not really her problem to solve though? She quitting out of frustration with a clearly insane workload. Whoever has given her that workload is responsible. You'll do the same eventually unless you address the problem and get more staff. Hopefully you're the kind of person who is good at negotiating with a leadership team.

Prepare to step into a problem job.

Honestly I think YABU because truthfully it’s not her problem. It sounds like she’s been working a too-big job for a long time, struggled to get SLT support, has decided she’s had enough, and what better way to really show senior leadership how big the job is once and for all than to have her replacement shout that message for her?

You’re right, it’s not all brand new to me. I’ve worked in this space before, which is why I got the consulting work, I just haven’t done this exact role. I know that with proper training and support I’d be more than capable of it, but that just isn’t happening at the moment.

It’s not that I don’t know the subject, I do, it’s more about bridging the gap between the theory and the technical. That’s where I need a bit of help, but instead of explaining things properly she’s now defaulting to “you just know” or “you just do.” Which is fine if you’ve been in the role for years, but it’s not very helpful when you’re trying to learn it fresh.

She can’t wait to leave and really doesn’t care if you “get” everything. You are going to have to fill the gaps in other ways or learn on the job. Is there a course that you can book yourself on to?

It sounds like there is very little documentation available because the departing employee has "done it all in her head" due to many years experience in the job, Distilling that kind of experience to a newbie can be very challenging. People who are expert as doing a job are not necessarily expert at describing how to do it. Think of trying to explain to someone how to ride a bicycle! You can tell them about the basic safety measures etc but you learn the skill of bike riding by doing it. The existing encumbent has nothing to gain at this point so no wonder she is becoming inpatient.

I think as others have said, she’s done more than enough now and you’re going to have to take it from here.
You must have enough info now to have a good overall idea of things - and then you’ll have a manager/other colleagues to consult as things come up.

I think your expectations of a senior level handover are unrealistic.

I've never even had time with a predecessor, and rarely any kind of notes. I've just had to figure out what was happening previously, take what worked, fix what didn't, and just run with it. That's why the role has been senior - because I've been expected to be able to cope without training.

If you need the amount of training you think you do, I think this role is too senior for you.

A junior is often more than capable of being a senior manager with the right training and support. That training and support might take ten years.

A senior manager just rocks up and does the work, because they've already trained.

You talked your way into this job. Your options are, do you give up because you've bitten off more than you can chew, or do you rise to the occasion and figure things out?

Handover is all fair and well, but 15 hours sounds very excessive, if you need 15 hours handover, thats not a one person role, its too much in the reeds, or there is huge inefficiency, In reality you want to clarify with your JD (and keeping your manager abreast of your approach) how the handover is progressing. You want current status of all in flight items, and any processes in place, full POC etc.

If its becoming apparent that there are items outside your scope - raise it to management. If its becoming apparent theres inefficiency- raise it.

Your first 30 days at least, do a full review to ensure you're not responsible for anything outside your scope, that your capacity is adequate for the items, and if not, call it out. You only have so much capacity, if you take on the world you'll end up under delivering. Start fresh and start well. Dont just pick up the shit youve been handed. Your incumbent failed for a reason, don't follow blindly.

All of this. 15 hours!

She's already out of the door with zero fucks to be given so she can't be blamed.

Tons of roles are chock full of 'learnt knowledge' ie. You acquire it as you go along. It's impossible to teach someone every little thing you need to know for a role during a handover. In some ways it's better, as a fresh pair of eyes can often see better ways of doing things than the outgoing staff member who has done it that way for years because that's just their way.

Cracking opportunity to really make the job your own.