AIBU to think my handover should actually be a handover, not me being snapped at?

[Slightlymalted]

Everyone knows the job market is tough at the moment. I’ve read on here and elsewhere that the best way to get ahead is to reach out directly to companies you’re interested in and to lean on your network. I did exactly that at the start of the year and managed to line up some consultancy/advisory work.

It went well, and people at the company were really positive about me. They even said at the time that if there was a vacancy they’d love to have me properly on board. At that stage there wasn’t a role beyond the consultancy bit, so I just carried on.

Then the woman who heads up this area decided to resign. From what I gather she was competent enough, but she didn’t gel with the leadership team and there had been a bit of friction. The company seemed pretty happy about her decision to leave, and to be totally honest, so was I because it opened up this opportunity for me.

So now I’m doing the handover with her, and here’s where I’m struggling. The role is a lot bigger than I thought, she’s been juggling a huge amount. I really want to do well in this position, and I am committed to it, but I’m finding the handover process frustrating.

We’ve already had something like 15 hours of handover sessions. At first she was going through things properly, but now she’s very obviously losing patience. She’s started snapping and when I ask questions, instead of explaining, she just says things like “you just know this” or “you just do.” Which is not helpful when I’m trying to understand how things actually work in practice.

I appreciate she might feel resentful that I’m stepping into her role, but that’s not my fault, and I’m just trying to learn. I’m frustrated because I feel like I’m not being given the best chance to succeed, and I don’t want to start off badly in what should be a really positive step for me.

So, AIBU to expect her to stay professional and actually hand things over properly, regardless of how she feels about me? Would you raise it with the CEO/leadership that the handover isn’t being done properly, or should I just muddle through and piece things together myself?

If you're struggling with this level of handover I'm not sure what you think she can give you? As others have said 15 hours plus notes is an incredibly generous handover. Treat it like a brand new role and start from scratch if you can't understand her work. I'm love a blank sheet and making a role mine. Just following someone else's template isn't really a senior role. You need to have confidence in yourself and your abilities and lead the way.

Oh dear, wrong thread!!

Handover is not meant to be training though.

I've never had 15 hours handover in any job. My BIL recently left his role and was saying the new person needed so much support lhe was getting fed up.

They had a 2 week handover and he said she was asking so many questions.

IME a handover is a bit of background on key clients and staff members, and the contacts or files you'll need to get the information you need. Not detailed instruction on how to do the role.

Oh OP you really are being very naive here. That’s simply not how things work. Push this line and there is a decent chance she will say fuck it and go off sick until end of notice period and get paid for it and you will get zero extra handover.

Just remember you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

She probably expected to hand over to someone a bit more competent.
You sound like you need her constant input to do the role and there's probably work she needs to complete on top of finding time for that.

I cannot imagine expecting this level of hand holding. The most handover I've ever had was one side of A4, and for one senior role I got nothing at all, just a mess of files. You are being incredibly unreasonable and it sounds as though you aren't capable of doing this role.

It’s not about wanting every tiny detail spoon-fed, it’s about having enough of a foundation to replicate her daily work so the department output doesn’t suffer during the transition

I don't think I've ever had a handover - generally the previous person has left and the person acting in the role was just holding things together and too busy with their real job to do much handover. You need to talk to your manager about their priorities and expectations and then to any internal and external stakeholders- what do they need, what was working for them and what wasn't etc. And of course the team itself if it's a line manager position. It's really not her job to provide more than she has and if you go to the CEO and complain she's only given you 15 hours and hasn't trained you how to replicate her thinking it's not going to look good for you.

Also sounds like you're just going to trash her because you can't do the role. Bad workman and his tools....

15 hours of handovers is a lot to expect of anyone. I would focus on learning the "hows" for now, OP, and figure out the "whys" yourself further down the line.

I'm a bit on the fence.

It sounds like you are expecting training rather than a handover, especially from the comments you've quoted. I view a handover as explaining the major requirements of the role and expecting the person taking over to fill in the gaps in terms of how that's done, by using the expertise and knowledge that should have secured them the job.

Quirks of the systems being used and maybe a few other specifics could be explicitly stated, but you shouldn't have to go through processes to the nth degree.

It sounds like she's frustrated by your neediness.

I was more or less managed into early retirement by a misogynist who wanted me gone because I stood up to him in order to defend my departments and because he saw my going as an opportunity to save money and to put in place someone who wouldn't argue their corner.

The last I heard, I'd had 6 replacements in 6 years.

A handover with my first replacement was organised. I couldn't spend too much time with her because I still had my job to do. I had warned all candidates beforehand about the workload.

The successful candidate came to see me in a state of shock. She'd 'assumed' that the wage had been decreased because the remit had been lightened. It had not.

I really did try to be pleasant and helpful, but it's difficult when you realise that your replacement has been gulled into believing that you weren't up to the job.

My boss is no longer in his post.

ETA I'd already given all candidates info about the extent of the remit.

She doesn’t just get to decide she’s “had enough” and start giving me one-line brush-offs while I’m trying to get up to speed.

But she does, because she is doing just that.

Sounds like they don’t like her because she wouldn’t brown nose the CEO.

You sound under qualified and as if you want her to do the heavy lifting for you. We’ve had a senior exec start to replace someone else. They have a weekly meeting but that’s about it. The new exec has got stuck in and has hit the ground running.

I think you do need to have a word with the CEO. About which bits of the job you are going to do and which can be binned off, streamlined or delegated, as it is clearly too much as it stands.

Why not take a step back and treat this woman to a coffee and kindly say, “I wanted to say thanks very much for all your time. I know I’m asking a lot of questions, can we please just go over X, Y and Z and I think I should be right.” Then after that last handover session with her, write down everything you know and any gaps can be filled in as you learn on the job.

I run a small antiques business. If I wanted to employ an admin assistant I could explain my routines and payment processes no problem. But I could not explain to someone how I go about the practical business of buying and selling antiques because the accrued knowledge and experience is all in my head. Its a quirky thing that I just DO and have done since I was young. So I do have some sympathy with the job leaver in this example. How do you propose to gouge that knowledge and skill from her skull because thats what it sounds like you are trying to do. I think you are probably causing her a lot of stress. In her position I would probably go off sick.

With all kindness, @Slightlymalted, you don't sound ready for this job. And by the way your posts have gone, you don't sound ready for any senior job.

You don't have the people's skills to realise that this woman is leaving her job. She owes you nothing. She's looking forward to not having to continue in this position. And still, she's given you 15 hours of explanations about her role.

"It’s not optional. She doesn’t just get to decide she’s “had enough” and start giving me one-line brush-offs while I’m trying to get up to speed"

This is, frankly, laughable. You have no leg to stand. She absolutely gets to decide, and she has done, and if you push her a bit harder she'll tell you to fuck off and go on stress leave. To be honest, if I were her, I would have done that already.

On top of not having the people skills to understand her situation (and how vulnerable yours is), you also don't seem to have the professional skills to figure out how to even start on this position, let alone get up to scratch, without her holding your hand and taking you through all the middle steps from A to B.

Time for some introspection and some hard decisions, OP. You either pull up your big girl pants and get working, or perhaps it is time to admit this is not the job for you, and let someone more competent take over.

I started a new senior role at the beginning of the year, I had a one day handover and he was gone the next day. Remember you know the subject matter and start to do things your way instead. If there’s no processes in place, it’s time to make your own.

This is not the job for you.

For multiple reasons.

None of these reasons are to do with her or are her concern.

This is not the job for you.

For multiple reasons.

None of these reasons are to do with her or are her concern.

Do you feel like you're capable of doing this job independently, OP? If she just didn't come back and there were no more handover sessions, would you be able to just get on with things or are you worried you would flounder?

15 hours doesn't "sound like a lot", it is a significant amount of time, considerably more than most would receive, and I'd be concerned that even with that you still don't have a handle on things yet.

In your position I would start now doing roughly half of the role. Choose distinct areas which you feel most confident with and just get stuck in. Make a list of questions as you go, try to answer as many as possible yourself as you try things.

At the end of 2/3 days send her the list of remaining questions and also ask her to hand across passwords etc etc.

Then take on doing the rest for a few more days and send a list of questions.

In terms of resource for finding out how to do things I would ask your new team. In my experience team members love working for a manager who is honest about what they don’t know and upfront enough to ask experienced people for advice.

What sort of job is it? Is it actual processes you need to know about?

I think you need to look at what you want to bring to the role, what additional skills you have, how can you make your mark. Taking on a senior role means you need to know the bigger picture and that is where judgement comes in.

If it’s a particular system you need to know about use your own time to research or practice with it.

I expect like most jobs it's a variation of pushing buttons on a keyboard. When does this lady finish? You only learn by being chucked in