AIBU to think my handover should actually be a handover, not me being snapped at?

[Slightlymalted]

Everyone knows the job market is tough at the moment. I’ve read on here and elsewhere that the best way to get ahead is to reach out directly to companies you’re interested in and to lean on your network. I did exactly that at the start of the year and managed to line up some consultancy/advisory work.

It went well, and people at the company were really positive about me. They even said at the time that if there was a vacancy they’d love to have me properly on board. At that stage there wasn’t a role beyond the consultancy bit, so I just carried on.

Then the woman who heads up this area decided to resign. From what I gather she was competent enough, but she didn’t gel with the leadership team and there had been a bit of friction. The company seemed pretty happy about her decision to leave, and to be totally honest, so was I because it opened up this opportunity for me.

So now I’m doing the handover with her, and here’s where I’m struggling. The role is a lot bigger than I thought, she’s been juggling a huge amount. I really want to do well in this position, and I am committed to it, but I’m finding the handover process frustrating.

We’ve already had something like 15 hours of handover sessions. At first she was going through things properly, but now she’s very obviously losing patience. She’s started snapping and when I ask questions, instead of explaining, she just says things like “you just know this” or “you just do.” Which is not helpful when I’m trying to understand how things actually work in practice.

I appreciate she might feel resentful that I’m stepping into her role, but that’s not my fault, and I’m just trying to learn. I’m frustrated because I feel like I’m not being given the best chance to succeed, and I don’t want to start off badly in what should be a really positive step for me.

So, AIBU to expect her to stay professional and actually hand things over properly, regardless of how she feels about me? Would you raise it with the CEO/leadership that the handover isn’t being done properly, or should I just muddle through and piece things together myself?

“With proper training and support”

OP you are being unrealistic here - when you are brought in as “head of”, you ARE the training and support, you don’t get given it in a structured way. Sounds like you’ve not worked at this level before?

Look, I’m not unsympathetic here really I’m not. Several times I’ve inherited complete lack of processes from people who have previously left or are leaving and don’t care. And yes it has been hard, but I’ve figured it out.

Completely agree with this. 15 hours handover is a large amount, way more than I’d expect in a senior role and don’t think I’ve ever had any handover to be honest, just been expected to hit the ground running. That’s why they hire seniors not juniors.

She sounds overwhelmed and desperate to leave.

15 hours of handover, whilst she’s presumably still doing the very busy job, is a vast amount.

It sounds like you’re over anxious about taking on the job tbh

Sorry to say this job sounds too senior for you. I've moved from PM to programme manager in a new department. I haven't recieved any sort of handover, just been expected to get on with it. Because I feel comfortable at this level, I seek out answers, make decisions based on my judgement and yes, just figure it out. Seems like you are unable to do this and have quite unrealistic expectations. Yabu.

But the proper training and support wouldn’t be her role surely but the company

This is where once you start you do a state of the nation

report, outline gaps etc and your next steps. Senior roles are very rarely explained, you find your way through.

Snap. I wentfrom programme manager to head of change. No training I went out and asked questions. You don’t need the process you need the outputs and deliverables explaining to you mores

This is probably how I'd describe a lot of my job too - how do I know how to handle the situation? I just have to figure it out myself. If there was a flowchart or rigid set of steps to follow then it would and could be handled by someone much more junior - if it has to be escalated up it's because it doesn't fit the norm and needs human judgement. This is really scary the first few times you do it, but it's a totally normal part of progressing. There is also a level of personal risk around decision making that you don't really have while more junior - again, this is just part of being more senior.

I'm aware that this thread is probably terrifying you. I think actually the most helpful question you can ask is 'where do you go/who do you ask if you DON'T know?'. You may yourself need to escalate more upwards to begin with - that's normal, and your boss should expect it in the early days of a new hire. You also hopefully will have staff within your team who can tell you how this kind of thing has been handled before. You then develop your own sense, and don't need either of those steers after a while. But it isn't something you can just download from your predecessor.

Have you been a people manager before? It might be helpful to think/learn about different strategies and approaches. To begin with, you might find you are almost forced to be a more 'consensual' style manager, as your team will know more than you about many things and so you are very reliant on them for the knowledge to allow you to make decisions. It may help both them and you to acknowledge to them that you aren't your predecessor, don't yet know all she knows, but that you're looking forward to working with them to look at what does and doesn't work in current processes. Don't go making changes for the sake of it - this is tempting (it feels like it will make you look efficient/decisive) but dangerous until you really understand why things are as they are. In my experience, that takes at least 6 months, probably a year if the role has any cyclical elements (things that are only done at certain times).

This.
Be guided by your job description, not by what she has been doing up until now.

If this is a senior role, I would expect a lot of the technical stuff to be done by the juniors. Perhaps her job got too big because she never delegated?

You are presumably inheriting a team, so lean on them to show you how to do things, and wherever possible delegate. Expect pushback - they won't want to take on any extra work that your predecessor used to do. But part of stepping up is learning how to manage juniors.

Also, in the first few months lean a bit (not too much) on your line manager. They should be steering you as to what the priorities are, what they need, and who in other teams you need to co-ordinate with or work with. That is part of normal induction into a role.

If the juniors can't show you something technical because they don't know, and your line manager can't show you because they don't know either, then you find out who does know.
For example ask the software supplier (for whom you are a customer, so they should happily help you), or you read up on the legislation and work it out from first principles, or you go online to find a help website.

15 hours is a lot, and I’m not particularly surprised. I’ve been in exactly your situation of moving into a consulting role where it is recognised that there will be some gaps in technical knowledge, but overall my skill sets and background make me a good fit. The answer is you get on with it and learn from those around you in the first few weeks who are usually all too happy to support you and bring you up to speed with any specific gaps.

If you're new to the company it's your opportunity to find out who else knows this stuff - surely she's not the only one who does, and if she is that's a huge issue that needs to be addressed.

But if you’re right and things weren’t going well for her in the role, and your bosses weren’t exactly devastated to see her go, why are you expecting an amazingly detailed and flawless handover? It shouldn’t be a surprise if you’re replacing someone who, for whatever reason, isn’t working out in the role, that their version of how to do it isn’t what you should be following.

Look at it from her point of view. She’s resigned from her job and, instead of her bosses trying to persuade her to stay, they pretty much say “Great - now we can hire that consultant we like”. And then she finds that on top of that, her replacement isn’t ready to hit the ground running, but needs a huge amount of her time and expects to have the job explained to her in minute detail. Plus, presumably she’s still trying to actually do the job on top of all this handover time?

She's probably already mentally checked out, and I can’t say I blame her. What do you think going to the CEO and complaining about the handover will achieve? He’s hardly going to threaten her with disciplinary action if she doesn’t pull her socks up. It’s not like she’s going to be worried about losing her job!

If they wanted things done her way, they’d be trying to keep her. You need to work out how to do it your way.

I think that’s a fair point, but just to clarify, she was good at her role. The issue wasn’t her ability, it was more that she didn’t get on with the CEO. She’s on the spectrum and just couldn’t gel with him, which created tension. From what I saw when I was consulting, there was never really any scope to get rid of her because her output was so strong, and that in itself caused a lot of frustration in the business.

So from my side, it feels like if I can replicate what she did, brilliant, and if I can improve on it, even better. But right now I don’t feel I’ve been given the tools to come close to either. It’s not about wanting every tiny detail spoon-fed, it’s about having enough of a foundation to replicate her daily work so the department output doesn’t suffer during the transition.

Did she tell you she's on the autistic spectrum? I'd be very careful of any company that disclosed that to you and gave it as a reason.
I hope she looks into constructive dismissal and disability discrimination.

You mentioned bridging the gap between theory and technical, unfortunately that is experience and can be a call based on the inputs or circumstances.
That is where seniors come in, bridging the gap and just making a call.
But unfortunately there aren't set rules for those times, that you can check on a matrix. If there are actually any set rules, making a decision matrix or escalation path could actually be a very good idea!

No, I was told at the start of the year as part of the review piece of work. It was necessary that I was told, so I don't think there is anything inappropriate there.

Your expectations are wildly unrealistic. 15 hours is a huge amount of time. You need to take some time to review where you have knowledge gaps and work out how to fill them yourself. You should be speaking to other people in the business not the outgoing incumbent. It’s unsurprising that’s she’s running out of patience with you at this point and you should accept she’s not going to give you any more information.

I get that 15 hours sounds like a lot, but let’s be real, she’s still on the payroll. She’s being paid to work her notice, and if the company says the best use of her time is to pass on knowledge, then that’s exactly what she should be doing.

It’s not optional. She doesn’t just get to decide she’s “had enough” and start giving me one-line brush-offs while I’m trying to get up to speed. If she was told to finish a report or run a project before leaving, she wouldn’t be able to turn round and say “nah, you just do it.” Why should handover be treated any differently?

I’m not expecting her to hold my hand forever, but while she’s still taking a salary, the absolute minimum is that she stays professional and does the job she’s being paid for, including giving me the support I ask for.

That’s all very well in theory. The reality is that a lot of people do the absolute minimum during their notice period - especially if the exit isn’t on the best of terms - because a) they have mentally checked out and b) they know there won’t be any reprisals.

In your report example, what would they say if she did indeed refuse to do the report? Put her on a disciplinary? Try to claim gross misconduct? She’s leaving anyway! It would be so much more trouble than it’s worth.

Realistically though what do you think complaining about her is going to achieve?

Totally agree with this.

15 hours is a lot.

IME you get access to their files, a few notes and then work it out yourself. Which is the best way anyway, as if she's been struggling she may not have been doing it right , and if you know the field you'll know where to find the information you need.

IME, once someone's given notice, it's very difficult to get that report or project done with any quality.

I’m struggling to even read the thread. Hell would freeze over before I’d eat it 🤮