AIBU to think my handover should actually be a handover, not me being snapped at?

[Slightlymalted]

Everyone knows the job market is tough at the moment. I’ve read on here and elsewhere that the best way to get ahead is to reach out directly to companies you’re interested in and to lean on your network. I did exactly that at the start of the year and managed to line up some consultancy/advisory work.

It went well, and people at the company were really positive about me. They even said at the time that if there was a vacancy they’d love to have me properly on board. At that stage there wasn’t a role beyond the consultancy bit, so I just carried on.

Then the woman who heads up this area decided to resign. From what I gather she was competent enough, but she didn’t gel with the leadership team and there had been a bit of friction. The company seemed pretty happy about her decision to leave, and to be totally honest, so was I because it opened up this opportunity for me.

So now I’m doing the handover with her, and here’s where I’m struggling. The role is a lot bigger than I thought, she’s been juggling a huge amount. I really want to do well in this position, and I am committed to it, but I’m finding the handover process frustrating.

We’ve already had something like 15 hours of handover sessions. At first she was going through things properly, but now she’s very obviously losing patience. She’s started snapping and when I ask questions, instead of explaining, she just says things like “you just know this” or “you just do.” Which is not helpful when I’m trying to understand how things actually work in practice.

I appreciate she might feel resentful that I’m stepping into her role, but that’s not my fault, and I’m just trying to learn. I’m frustrated because I feel like I’m not being given the best chance to succeed, and I don’t want to start off badly in what should be a really positive step for me.

So, AIBU to expect her to stay professional and actually hand things over properly, regardless of how she feels about me? Would you raise it with the CEO/leadership that the handover isn’t being done properly, or should I just muddle through and piece things together myself?

I definitely wouldn’t tell management that 15 hours handover isn’t enough. If I heard that I’d be seriously concerned.

Exactly. And it does not take 15 hours to handover information about the routines and processes. Especially when the OP has already had a consultancy role at the company. A handover is about what you do, not how you do it. And I must say I would expect anyone coming in at a more senior role to be ready to update and innovate rather than just stepping into the previous employee’s shoes like an automaton.

A handover is: what needs to be done, specific deadlines and pinch points, the systems and processes available to do the work, where to find information. That’s it. It’s not training-that needs to be done by the company.

Ok look mostly when you start a new role in a senior position the previous person has ALREADY GONE.

It’s the responsibility of the company to onboard you, show you the systems, processes and policies.

15 hours of handover is bloody ridiculous.

15 hours of handover and still not done?
This woman is a saint for having tolerated this for so long, the job is too mach for one person and you will break within 6 months if you take it on.

If handover takes more than 8 hours, the person who has been recruited has insufficient knowledge and experience to step into the role without a months-long learning-on-the-job setup where structures are in place to account that the new person isn't yet doing the job in full.

The employers should have recruited a deputy months ago to share the workload and learn by doing, they then might not have lost this highly knowledgeable and capable person who they are now expecting you, unrealistically, to replace, or at least would have someone on-hand who had a chance to successfully step up.

I'd be more interested in why she "didn't gel with the team" .. for some reason someone who sounds good at their job has been put in a position she wants to leave and understandably doesn't want to bend over backwards for her replacement.

Edited get for gel

Raise it with the leadership. You want to give yourself the best possible opportunity to succeed in the future.

I actually sympathise with her. Last year I had to do a handover in my previous role, and must have done about the same amount of hours as well as sharing detailed reports, files, putting together calendars of reporting cycles and so on, all while still trying to do my (also mad) workload on top of it. It was pretty frustrating to put all that time in to trying to secure a smooth handover only to find my successor asking questions I knew I'd answered the previous week, or didn't know something that quite frankly they really should have known.

By contrast, I went to my new role in a different company, and my handover was non existent, with very little induction. I'm still here to tell the tale, despite finding the initial few months quite challenging.

If you've been doing the consultancy role, surely you should have enough experience to fill any knowledge or technical gaps through learning on the job - which, to be honest, is a much better way of learning and you will find that you could probably do a week's worth of induction and still come across something when in role that completely takes you by surprise.

15 hours is two working days! We usually have at least two weeks handover period.

Please be mindful of how she has been treated behind the scenes. I took redundancy and in the lead up to that my manager had not spoken to me for 12 weeks (for no apparent reason) and I left after five years without a thank you or good luck. They only based for three things on my handover which frankly was an insult and they clearly did not understand what my job entailed. Conversely I would defo not have participated in 15 hours of handover. That’s not handover that’s training.

Perhaps you're a perfectionist or have some imposter syndrome and that's holding you back from just jumping in and doing the job, and indeed making judgement calls rather than following a semi automated flowchart process. After 15 hours of handover you need to take the armbands off and jump in - you can probably swim now, although it's normal not to do it very gracefully, and to splash and get a bit of water in your eyes at first 🙃 There's only so much you can be led through, now you need to learn by doing it for real, without asking every time you're not sure.

Fake it til you make it time - and other such cliches.

Good luck!

Is it the fly one? I saw that. 😀

My experience is in secondary sector middle management. Never in my life have I heard of anyone being given a week for a handover in this sector.

It is not training - it is a handover. So you should not be asking her how to do tasks, just to understand what tasks need to be done.

I think that’s a fair point, but just to clarify, she was good at her role. The issue wasn’t her ability, it was more that she didn’t get on with the CEO. She’s on the spectrum and just couldn’t gel with him, which created tension. From what I saw when I was consulting, there was never really any scope to get rid of her because her output was so strong, and that in itself caused a lot of frustration in the business.

So she was great at her job (to the point it caused “frustration” in the business) but is potentially leaving because she is ND and wasn’t properly supported by her CEO? That’s one potential reading of this scenario and quite possibly how she sees it.

Did SHE have 15+ hours of handovers when she first started the role or did she just have to dig in and get on with it?

Exactly. That's where the saying about a new broom sweeps clean comes from as a new head of department is meant to bring in new procedures and ideas. Could be she has been there so long that as the company has expanded its functions so actually a new department should have actually be made. 15 hours of instruction seems insane.

A role that takes 15 hours plus to hand over is either too big for one person, or the person being handed over to isn’t the right person for the role.
It’s way too much, and I understand her frustration.

Tbh, I think you sound like a nightmare.

If I was your boss, and you told me what you had written here, I'd be questioning my decision and your suitability for the role.

It's not 'she isn't handing it over in enough detail' (after 15 hours, working previously in the company, having written notes provided to you..) it's that you just don't know HOW to do the job you were employed for. You should be able to pick it up and run with it. You might not get it all correct, but you should have the confidence and experience to be able to work out a plan to do it.

Who said that it's something to be proud of?

The fact of the matter is that very few enterprises will gladly pay for their new start to be there at the same time as the outgoing person - and the new start is is likely to be working their notice in their old position.

It's hard to assess properly since we don't know what the role is and how much you should already know, but I guess we can see why there was friction. She sounds difficult and they sound like they've no idea what the job entails.

Ok she is still being paid but presumably she is currently having to do her job as well as find time to hand over.

If I was to be ill or leave my job then I am sure that the next most senior person in my team could step in to my role and yes they would probably need a bit of prompting on things but I believe that they could do it - they have watched me do it for long enough, assisted me at times on most aspects etc. Surely if you got the job over existing FTP members of the team it was because they believed you could do it - were they wrong and are you maybe not quite ready for this yet?

I feel bad for her and think that you sound very entitled. If I were her I would be refusing to give you any more of my time. Figure it out for yourself.

I suspect that she is the only person who would be able to give you this handover - may be wrong, but it could show that the managers etc do not know the bulk of what she does and how long/ how complex it is, realistically. Since she was 'ok with it' in their eyes, they may have designated it to be her business. The best thing you can do is to review everything asap and see if it can be more efficient (e.g. with tech investment and less insane timetabling, in the situation I was in). If you get support for this in fairly early days, you may stand a better chance of shaping this well, but the support and understanding of the job is a key element - it's also clear to feel, if it is not really there.

You’re being wholly unrealistic.

In most senior jobs there is no handover. You turn up on day one and piece it together yourself.

the expectation that you’re going to be trained and supported by anyone - let alone the woman who’s all but been forced out - is ludicrous.

In your OP you sound quite contemptuous of your old boss: “I gather she was competent enough” is a phrase dripping in disdain.

you e arrogantly assumed you could step into her role with ease, discover it’s actually more complex than you realised snd now want her to hold your hand 🤣

I think the OP is using the word 'handover' interchangeably with 'training' - give them a break! I get you find your own way in senior positions, but there's no need to bite the OP's head off. At the moment there's two people in role so one should be spending the time helping the other find their feet. I also think the 'checking out' on notice period is not acceptable. I've never done this myself and I cannot understand people who do - you are being paid to work, I find it's unbelievable people (senior apparently) just don't bother- where is your self-respect?

I've recently changed jobs and had a solid week 'handover' which was no where near enough. But it was really training & handover.

Many jobs do not have comprehensive training notes, and many times it's much more effective to talk through / do these together than just read them - what counts as 'training' and 'handover' can be a bit of a grey area in practice. 'This is what should happen (training), but in this particular case this is the history so we do this (handover). You can't do the handover without the training.

This is exactly what happened in my handover. My successor got the role over the most experienced member of my team, who had worked with me for many years and had been an integral part of shaping key decisions, processes and systems. When it became apparent that my successor knew nowhere near as much as other team members (despite their department working together closely with mine), and was asking lots of questions about minor operational processes that they should have known, or been able to work out, rather than looking at the key strategic elements, this is where frustration at giving so much time kicked in.