Teacher conduct - clapping at DS

[NotUsually]

DS 13 got sent out of class today for talking to another student (friend) and not paying attention when he should have been.
He got a warning first.
He talked again to the same student a second time about 10 minutes later.
For this, he got sent out of the room to go in to isolation for the rest of the school day, followed by an hour after school detention.

As he got his stuff together and walked out of the room, the teacher started clapping at him. He said to DS "Well done you just got yourself an isolation and a detention" then clapped with his hands raised up above his head and carried on clapping at DS as he walked through the room and out of the door. Whilst the teacher was clapping, the other students joined in and started clapping too, and the teacher allowed this and carried on himself.

I've had dialogue with the school to confirm that DS was talking and to check whether he was doing anything more than this, and the teacher has confirmed that he was punished for talking when he should have been listening to the teacher, on 2 separate occasions in the lesson. Nothing more.

I accept that talking when he shouldn't have been talking and that this has received a punishment of being sent out, sent to isolation and given a 1 hour detention. But I've got a really big issue with the clapping. DS accepts he shouldn't have been talking and has aplogised about this and seems regretful for his actions. But he says the clapping from the teacher and other students whilst he walked through them all to leave the room made him feel humiliated and I've taken issue with this.

AIBU?

If OP raises this, the teacher can learn from this experience to help them grow and mature and understand that they don't have free rein to behave exactly the way they please without repercussions.

So you think children need only to be told once and they stop immediately?

More likely, just like they did age two when they wanted to test their mother's stamina by banging on an upturned saucepan with a spoon, they want to see just how far they can go until they are told enough is enough.

Oh I imagine this is unlikely to be a one time thing…

Alex... what's the point of even using 'DS' if you're just going to end up doxxing your son anyway?

FUMING. LIVID. OFSTED NOW.

It is humiliating to a child - even pre school - who walks out of a shop with a toy they liked the look of without paying for it and is marched smartly back by a caring parent and made to give it back.

I suppose you disagree with that, too?

No? How strange. Why would apologising for stealing be the same as being mocked in front of your peers?

And people wonder why teachers are leaving. Not only do they have to put up with kids like OP's son, they also have to put up with parents rushing to complain about every little thing.

I find it incredible how quick people are to believe the teacher did this. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. We haven't had both sides, just a teen who got in trouble. I don't think any assumptions should be jumped to.

But that goes for every thread on MN. If we could only post opinions after hearing both sides, the board would be empty!

OP has said the son's friend told her.

If her son was a gobby, little shite I can see why an inexperienced teacher might feel frustrated but (even allowing for mother bias) the boy's school record doesn't show that. The teacher sounds like several PE teachers I remember - basically bullies trying to be popular with their students. His clapping was unprofessional, at the very least. I don't know if it's worth raising it with the school, if DS, is otherwise happy. But next parents evening I be telling him to sit properly on his chair!

I think it's different because op has had the opportunity to ask about this but chose not to.

I dont agree with this, punishment for talking yes, humilation no.

Follow the behaviour policy but leave out the humiliation. It works for me.

Many great teachers with integrity are leaving for very good reasons. You’re doing them a disservice by comparing them to a man who publicly humiliates his students in the absence of other methods.

Of course we haven’t had both sides, it’s an online forum? But teachers aren’t perfect, there are great ones, ordinary ones and ones that shouldn’t be in the role. It’s weird to think that there aren’t ones that make mistakes and why shouldn’t parents be able to talk about it on… a parenting forum.

Me too, and the vast majority of teachers, I’d say.

Thanks everyone.
I'm reading each and every reply.
Thanks to those who understand that this was in a benchball lesson in the gym. Not in the middle of an English lesson. There were no health & safety issues. To me, context is everything.
And thanks as well to those who have acknowledged that I've looked on his pupil profile app and seen he has never been sent out of class to isolation before in his entire time of being at the school and has never received an after school detention before in 2 years of secondary school and his positive behaviour merit points are very high.
Found out last night from another student's mum who was in the PE gym at the time that her DS went home and told her it was really horrible, that nobody else noticed him talking in between the bench ball games (although DS himself fully admits he was talking, albeit at a low level quick exchange about the game) and that the PE teacher was looking round the gym hall smiling at the students who joined in with the clapping and was using gestures to encourage them to keep going with clapping until DS had walked out of the double doors. This student has told his mum the teacher was acting like a bully. His mum has texted me about it.
I had been on the fence about whether or not to take this further with the school, and I wanted to give myself a day or two to reflect carefully rather than report it straight away.
But I have now decided to.
Will keep you updated of the outcome.

Tea, but usually op has been witness, this time even she has no idea. Feels unfair to judge before having a response on this. I have not suggested at all that it's not wrong if it happened, of course there are good and bad teachers. But this man is being demonised based on a 13 year old who was told off, so I'd want to know more.

Another teacher here, normally I read these posts and think there’s more to it. This teacher sounds like a dick. Your son handled the situation well, but I’d raise it with the school. The teacher could do the same with a more vulnerable student, and that’s just not on.

I think his point was to humiliate . Was it right or the best way to handle it? No perhaps not. Has it achieved the desired goal quickly? It sounds like yes.

I suspect your son isn’t quite as innocent as you have made out, so before you go to the school bear that in mind as this is a long partnership ahead.

Personally I would write this off. He should have learnt he lesson and won’t do it again. If this does happen again then raise it. Going to the school simply shows your son that whatever discipline is given you’ll go and get the teacher in trouble. Will this mean next time he chats away knowing the consequence could be written off with mums help?

I would let him fight his own battle on this and address it a second time.

Out of interest if you were a teacher and had an annoying child be told once and ignore you and continue doing the poor behaviour only 10 minutes later - how would you handle it? Your son has been really disrespectful, it isn’t ’just talking’. He has disrespected him asking nicely the first time and also his actual time. He doesn’t turn up to work to talk into thin air. Multiply your son’s behaviour by 29 other kids doing the same - very annoying and disruptive isn’t it?

Yes. I think the head needs to know. And tell them about the other juvenile and unprofessional behaviour. A 24y teacher needs to try and separate himself from the pupils he teaches, not initiate bullying ‘banter’ type behaviour.

It is good that so many experienced teachers here are able to distinguish between appropriate and proportionate sanctions, and humiliating punishments.

I suspect this teacher won’t last and this will not be the only example of poor behaviour in the workplace.

The OP has repeatedly said that the talking was not acceptable. She and her son have accepted the two sanctions: detention and isolation. She has berated him for talking. He knows he did wrong. Did you miss all that?

Why do you think an extra act of humiliation was needed? Should this be incorporated into school policy then? And if not, why not?

How would you handle it?

And again:

Implement the behaviour policy ie isolation by the sound of it, but without the orchestrated humiliation.

@NotUsuallyOn a side note- health and safety in PE is larger issue than in an English lesson, unless it’s a severe paper cut! My son tripped and cracked his chin open on one of those PE benches, has a scar.