Not Transphobia - Manphobia

[blueliner]

Spurred on from a conversation today with a friend, I’m really getting tired of people throwing the accusation of transphobia around when it is nothing of the sort.

I really don't understand why stating that I don’t want to share single sex spaces with biological men, no matter how they identify, is transphobic. I am not scared of trans people and welcome trans identifying women into female only spaces. I just don’t want to share any single sex space with the opposite sex, no matter what surgeries they may or may not have had. One in 4 women are sexually assaulted by men in their lifetime. Men, as a group, pose a threat to women, isn’t that just factual.

AIBU to think what people should really be shouting is manphobia and they wouldn’t be wrong. I am scared of being in certain situations, especially in states of undress with unknown males in the room. Isn’t that why we have single sex spaces in the first place.

YABU - It’s transphobia
YANBU - It’s manphobia

Don't get me wrong, I think those were very uncommon cases, but I know the people personally and I absolutely believe it happened - they were not in any way the type to initiate or be in any way comfortable with confrontation of any type.

Has anyone, ever, said ALL trans people are everything you’ve stated. I’ve never seen that. Only that all trans women are male. Because they are. Males commit 98% of the violent and sexual crime that occur. That’s not to say all men or all trans.

Your argument could be attributed to TRA’s who say ALL trans people are harmless and just want to pee like they are some homogenous group, it’s the cis ones that are bad don’t you know!

Everyone is male or female. There’s not a third category. Even those with DsD’s. Most are good, some are bad. That includes those who say they identify differently.

It hasn't been said on this thread yet that I've noticed but I have absolutely seen it said in multiple other threads and I've reported those posts and they were deleted. Mainly in reference to all trans women.

It’s not meant to be a gotcha.

There's a whole sub forum on here where people love to discuss this stuff, OP.

Although I voted yanbu, I wouldn't say manophobia is the right term. A phobia is an irrational fear, an over-the-top panic reaction to something non threatening. You have a rational and proportionate caution. You probably don't get a huge flight-or-fight adrenaline surge in the presence of a man, you just know that if you are in a vulnerable situation with any unknown man, no matter how dressed or made-up feminine style, you are at more risk than if you were in a single-sex space.

There is a difference between an arachnophobic person who screams and panics at the most harmless of spiders, vs the spider expert who has no phobic reaction but still wouldn't go to sleep in a room full of spiders only some of which are deadly.

but for all intents and purposes they are not a man. They are a biological woman. A female. And hence no threat to us. That's the point.

There is no such thing as 'misandry' any more than there is 'reverse racism'.

Misandry does exist, there’s no question about that, but this isn’t it. This is about a fear of the (potential) danger posed by men, NOT a hatred of men.

Don’t they say ‘Men fear being laughed at/humiliated by women. Women fear being killed by men.’

As for reverse racism, there is no such thing. Racism is racism whether it’s white on black, black on Hispanic, Hispanic on Asian, or indeed black on white.

Why is there a sub forum?

Do posts about husbands not helping around the house have a sub forum? I see loads of those types of posts on AIBU

A man can be a threat to a woman. Men, as a collective are not a threat to women. In fact the opposite is true that a majority of men will protect women and prevent any harm rather than be the cause. Just thought I'd clear that up. I get the point you were trying to make though.

Surely that’s a bad example then. It’s like saying because someone got stuck in the ladies loo once, they should now use the mens because the doors are safer.

Statistically women don’t attack women in any way the same rates as men attack women (and men). They also can’t rape.

I stand by my point, women (females) however they identify are safer in female only toilets. It’s a statistical fact as opposed to anecdotal evidence.

I’m not sure you understand.

If 98% of sexual assaults are commitment by men, then as a group they are a higher risk to women than a group of women.

We only need protecting from sexual assault because men exist. One such protection is single sex spaces. Another might be security cameras. Men sometimes step in to stop other MEN.

But the group men are the risk.

@Alicealig

It’s also not 'a man' that is the threat.

1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime and that doesn’t include other forms of abuse such as murder often in the domestic home by a spouse. The risk is high. Men are the risk group.

We don’t know which ones are good and which ones aren’t and many don’t step in. In fact it is proven that many of these awful behaviours of men towards women are egged on by other men. Especially when they are in a group. Think Lap dancing clubs, think locker room banter. Men, as a group, are not the protectors they are the perpetrators.

I’ve come across people whom I have no idea whether they are men or women. Genuinely can’t tell. We’ve ( the person I’m with) later asked each other and we’ve both been 🤷🏻‍♀️). So if I can’t tell what they are then I’m assuming there are other people who I would think were one when they are actually the other.

The 1 in 4 women bring assaulted in not by any means evidence. I'm willing to say at best it's political hysteria that I'm sure you couldnt provide citations for. I'm sure at least 1in 4 woman may have had unwanted attention from a man. That's more realistic to say.

If men are such a high risk I don't understand why men aren't just sexual assaulting us all day every day at every given opportunity if they're so predatory. After all who's there to prevent this and afford any protection or do you think that it could be because the majority of men won't stand for this so the minority of men who would do this have a deterant not to do it.

It perplexes me how some people are so ungrateful for the mostly great men in our western society in general. I get the difficulties that come with terrifying sexual assault but we can't be pushing narratives that tell women that's the norm as it's still very rare indeed, statistically. We work best as a society when in cooperation with men not opposition. As women we're never going to take over leadership, that's quite literally impossible as we don't hold a monopoly of force.

Jesus look at Afghanistan for gods sake. The women there were thriving because for 20 years our men took over their country and they were allowed freedoms like they'd never seen before. Our men gone, and 3 days later an entire country and rights of women, GONE! Why we try to oppose and fight the men we share our lives with ill never understand. For me, we both benefit by working together, he's far better when I'm there in addition.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/news/improving

Here is where the 1 in 4 women will experience some form of abuse in their lifetime post 16 years of age comes from.

@Alicealig _ You are a man aren't you. Politically hysteria it is not.

The charity 'Rape Crisis' has reported 1 in 4 women being raped or sexually assaulted as an adult. The overall statistics in England and Wales found 85,000 women experience rape, attempted rape or sexual assault every year.

Around 800,000 women were sexually assaulted in England and Wales in 2022, according to the most recent data.

Over one million VAWG related crimes were recorded during 2022/23, accounting for 20% of all police recorded crime.

World health organisation
Violence against women remains devastatingly pervasive and starts alarmingly young, shows new data from WHO and partners. Across their lifetime, 1 in 3 women, around 736 million, are subjected to physical or sexual violence by an intimate partner or sexual violence from a non-partner – a number that has remained largely unchanged over the past decade.
This violence starts early: 1 in 4 young women (aged 15-24 years) who have been in a relationship will have already experienced violence by an intimate partner by the time they reach their mid-twenties.

• 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult (Office for National Statistics, 2021).
• 1 in 6 children have been sexually abused (NSPCC, 2011)
• 1 in 20 men have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult (Office for National Statistics, 2021).
• 70,330 rapes were recorded by the police for the year ending March 2022 - the highest number ever (Office for National Statistics). In that same time period, charges were brought in only 2,223 rape cases (Crown Prosecution Service).
• 1 in 2 rapes against women are carried out by their partner or ex-partner (Office for National Statistics).
• 98% of adults prosecuted for sexual offences are men (Office for National Statistics)
• 5 in 6 rapes against women are carried out by someone they know (Office for National Statistics)

The MN position is totally in line with the polling done one this topic and with the law as it has been clarified.

What would be the problem with that?

Women are generally extremely good at identifying peoples sex. It's been beneficial for evolutionary reasons. Your own skills may be sub par on this for some reason, I don't know.

I mean, even if you have some doubts, you should be able to tell this second they open their mouths.

@Alicealig are you a man?

rape reported every hour in London.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxr202eee0no

So that last piece you've provided, which is the most accurate we have show the figure to be less than 2 in 100 women have suffered attempted or actual sexual assault. I can accept that a lot easier than the 1in 4 figure.

Also the meta data shows sexual assault to range from a bum pitch to a rape so which still an assault the actual number of woman that suffer from rape of more serious sexual assault falls into zero decimal in 100 ranges so overall the actual real life risk that 'men' as a collective pose is so small it's enough to feel confident in the general presence of men but maybe wary of a 'man' in certain circumstances.....

There are good men. Of course there are. But there are also bad ones.

For safeguarding, we keep all men out of women's single sex spaces, because we cannot tell at a glance who the bad ones are. Exactly the same principle should be applied to 'transwomen'. They are just like all the other men.

And I'm not male, nor do I identify as male. I get on better with males usually as I dislike drama and nonsense. Stats don't change whatever sex I am. I've only relayed the stats YOU provided.

Well, I suppose that depends on whether they've chopped their dick off or not. If so I'd hazard a guess the risk goes down considerably, even tho a agree as a rule no men in women's spaces and the same in men's spaces. They are both there to protect the sexes.