Not Transphobia - Manphobia

[blueliner]

Spurred on from a conversation today with a friend, I’m really getting tired of people throwing the accusation of transphobia around when it is nothing of the sort.

I really don't understand why stating that I don’t want to share single sex spaces with biological men, no matter how they identify, is transphobic. I am not scared of trans people and welcome trans identifying women into female only spaces. I just don’t want to share any single sex space with the opposite sex, no matter what surgeries they may or may not have had. One in 4 women are sexually assaulted by men in their lifetime. Men, as a group, pose a threat to women, isn’t that just factual.

AIBU to think what people should really be shouting is manphobia and they wouldn’t be wrong. I am scared of being in certain situations, especially in states of undress with unknown males in the room. Isn’t that why we have single sex spaces in the first place.

YABU - It’s transphobia
YANBU - It’s manphobia

Oh give over, you can ALWAYS tell

I think if you want a varied opinion then post outside Mumsnet, which can be a bit of an echo chamber on this topic!

I know quite a few trans identifying women and their average height is 5’6, they have no adam's apple, walk with a female gait, have female shoulders width and frames and it is obvious within half a second that they are female. In incredibly rare circumstances it might take a little longer to realise.

I also have a friend with Pcos and has she has some facial hair, no one ever mistakes her for a man because she is female.

I feel like it’s more than an echo chamber outside in many organisations and other online forums. To the point that you can’t actually say anything rational and factual without someone calling you a bigot.

This ^

Yep - I have nothing at all against Transmen. They are respectful to the gender they want to be and don't push for taking away men's rights to get them, become aggressive or attack men to get their way.

Men are the ones who commit crimes, whether they say they want to be a woman or not.

Agree with this and that some spaces need to remain female only.

I think it becomes transphobic when the argument becomes more focused on how "all" trans women must be sexual deviants and are purely fetishists and only want to access female spaces for nefarious purposes. I think that's when it crosses the line from being an issue related to the behaviour and harm caused by biological males in society and more around scaremongering about trans women specifically.

How can you be manphobic if you are happy to allow a person who was born a woman but is now to all intents and purposes a man into a female space?

Honestly I have NEVER heard anyone say that "all" transwomen are sexual deviants.
I think factually some are just like some men are, obviously because they are the same group. I have heard people say we can’t tell which are bad, so just as we do with non trans identifying men, they 'all' need to stay out of women single sex spaces.

Because they are not a man other than in their belief system.
I live in reality is the short answer.

A transman is not a man though. None of the reasons we wish to have male free spaces apply to transmen. Because they are female. It’s not hard.

I really welcome trans identifying females. Women’s single sex spaces are the safest space for all women (including trans identifying women).

Agreed, women have plenty of reasons to be fearful of men but it's not just that. It's also about privacy, I don't get undressed in front of men other than my husband, why should the way that a man thinks about himself change that. I don't care if he thinks he's a woman, I know he is a man and I refuse to undress in front of random men. And any male who expects that has NO respect for women at all.

Those who don't like the topic discussed always say this, "it's already been discussed". They however don't get to decide what people post about.

What 'intents and purposes' do you have in mind? Can you be more specific?

Definitely not for urinating intents and purposes

i said yabu, because you don't need to make up a new word, its called Misandry.

Charlie Kirk: "Do you believe that there should be a law against men going up to windows to watch women undress?"

Woke student: "Yes, of course I do"

Charlie Kirk: "Then why is it okay for a man to legally walk into a women's locker room?"

Woke student: 😳

That’s not the gotcha you think it is

I'm confused OP, aren't they agreeing with you? No men in women's spaces.

I am not scared of trans people and welcome trans identifying women into female only spaces.

If you mean transmen, I accept they have every right to be in women's single sex spaces, join women's groups etc, but given the choice (which I accept isn't going to happen), I'd rather not walk into a women's changing room or toilets to see another woman cosplaying masculinity.

Umm… op is saying she is happy to have transmen (females) in single sex spaces for women

So what innocent reason would a man have for going into a female single sex space when he knows he may make women uncomfortable and upset?

I saw a sort of "gotcha" post on Instagram or Threads or something that said (along the lines of) if you don't want trans people in women's toilets because you think men will identify as women to attack you - you aren't scared of trans people YOU ARE SCARED OF MEN
And I was like well, duh. Yes. Obviously.

You appear to contradict yourself when you say:

I am not scared of trans people and welcome trans identifying women into female only spaces. I just don’t want to share any single sex space with the opposite sex, no matter what surgeries they may or may not have had.

What am I missing? Does the first half of this mean you mean you would accept trans men (who were born women) in female-only spaces, or do you make a distinction between female-only spaces and single-sex spaces, and if so what do you consider to be the difference?