Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…

[AnotherNC12345]

… rather than the smuggling / trafficking gangs that are responsible for the journey?

I think it’s very extreme to put all of the blame and the anger at the individual that arrives, rather than the people responsible for orchestrating the whole process. These individuals are often ‘sold the dream’ and hooked in by organised crime groups who direct them to the UK. I’ve looked at sample routes from different parts of the world (screenshots may be pending) and these are complex and would need local people, as well as law enforcement, customs officers and other government officials to turn a blind eye involved in smuggling across multiple borders.

It’s no secret that these crossings likely cost a lot of money, and I think it would be safe to assume that refugees would often be in crippling debt to the OCGs who will put pressure on them to pay it back, by threatening them and their families and I would go as far as to say they could then be coerced in to further committing crimes when granted asylum in order to pay back their debt.

These OCGs are likely involved in other trafficking / crime, not just of asylum seekers but likely drugs, weapons and sex as they have the connections across those borders.

I think it’s very unlikely that an asylum seeker is sitting there looking at all the European government websites and shopping for a country with the best benefits package and approaching a trafficker with a brochure like they’re picking a Jet2 holiday. But this is the narrative that’s often put us and fuelled in the media.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a better system and want to control our borders better on a whole, but this sheer anger and blame placed at the human in front of us seems very misplaced, when they were likely manipulated in to thinking they can have a better life in this particular country and not another, and the problem is way way bigger than an individual.

I had hoped that it was at least the product of a willing affair, but that was wishful thinking/naivety on my part.

I’ll watch that over the weekend, it does sound interesting!

You’re putting words into my mouth there. “So what you’re saying is…” 😄

I do think people who don’t practice FGM are superior to those that do, yes.

I also think them superior to those who stone adulterers, execute homosexuals, practice child marriage, etc.

I’m sure you’d agree?

Oh, apologies, @smallpinecone , that was another poster.

Having watched the series, it’s an insult I’m quite happy to take.

Makes sense given his forehead.

At no point did I describe you as such.

Show me where I did.

Yes, I was going to say this. It's not so hilariously unusual at all. Ella Al-Shamahi in Human, which you referenced and which is excellent, I agree, makes the very good point that we all have a different 3% of Neanderthal DNA, which means they're actually still very present. I found that slightly mind-blowing, and quite moving.

That's interesting. Personally, I find it acceptable to watch people of any political and ideological persuasion when what I'm interested in is their delivery of factual material.

I saw these people at the weekend in London. Signs saying "Sadiq Khan is a terrorist," etc.

They have zero evidence that's he's a terrorist ffs and the ONLY reason they are saying this is his ethnicity.

Absolutely vile. How dare they! So no, nobody owes these people any respect whatsoever.

Indeed I do as do many of their countrymen and women, which is precisely why they risk their lives to get away from those oppressive regimes and practices. That they are then met with such hostility and suspicion when they make it is horrible.
To tar everyone from a society with the same brush is foolish. Just look at the different opinions in the UK.

I wasn’t calling you a Neanderthal, to be clear.

I was calling people who can’t decide what a Briton and talk about British purity as Neanderthals. Without the context you provided later about that interpretation of Neanderthals actually being incorrect.

The first part of my comment wasn’t intended as a slight against your genealogy either. It was a sort of tongue in cheek comment that was intended to mean that some people would consider you British because of the link to Scotland, and ignore the African link altogether.

I have just realised that it wasn’t communicated particularly well. But there wasn’t any intention of offending you. It was actually a solidarity post, with what was supposed to be sarcasm/humour!

“So you are stating that you think people in Britain are superior to those of other nations?
Fair enough. At least you’re honest. It’s the dancing about and failing to own opinions by some that is so awful.”

So you agree with me then, and agree that such practices have no place in British society.

No. DH was born there too, and his passport clearly states British Military Hospital, Nicosia (sovereign territory) as his place of birth. It is just possible that the Cypriot authorities would offer him a passport but he's never asked.

And I’m sure you agree that it’s unfortunate some immigrants have brought these cultural practices with them, rather than leaving them behind?

Do you know he used to legally defend Jihadi groups?

Do you mean such actions are not here because it’s all left behind?

@MrsSkylerWhite

Why do you try to shame me for believing that British values are good values, and that they are in many cases superior to those of others, when you actually agree with me?

Had it occurred to you that people protesting outside a hotel are using the hotel as the focus for their protest, and are hoping to send a message to government?

They're not protesting and expecting the migrants to say "hang on, I didn't realize that the British don't want mass illegal immigration, I will hop on the next dinghy back to France"

He would have needed to have done his two years conscription in the Cypriot Army, so not possible.

If it were even remotely true, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Voting doesn’t work. People have voted for lower immigration for more than twenty years, and no one listened. 72% of the voting public now think immigration is too high, but no meaningful action is taken to assuage people’s concerns. The first one in, one out flight was cancelled after protests. These protesters are really doing Reform’s work for them! People are left with no meaningful democratic way of making their wishes known.

And everyone is within their right to hold such protest. But we can’t pretend that choosing not to stand outside a parliament building, but in front of an immigrant’s place of stay isn’t a bully tactic towards them.

Yep, and we are where we are today because voting doesn't and will not work.

Reform are more of the same and I shudder to think what will happen given how angry some people are.

I agree with you, and I’m under no illusions that Reform will be any different. I’m genuinely at the point now where I think no political party is capable of navigating our way out of this situation. I see few signs of anyone in the political sphere even attempting to.

I wonder how you would classify my dc.

She was born in Britain to one British parent (mum) and one "foreign" parent (dad). Has lived here all her life, been educated here, only has a British passport etc.

But she maintain's strong links to her father's country of origin. Speaks the language, eats the food, visits every year. Has the right to live and work in that country, though no passport.

She is mixed race. Atheist. Celebrates festivals from both cultures. Both are important parts of her identity

She supports her dad's country in the cricket because her mum couldn't care less.

So is she British enough for you?

He doesn’t need any. He was born here.