Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…

[AnotherNC12345]

… rather than the smuggling / trafficking gangs that are responsible for the journey?

I think it’s very extreme to put all of the blame and the anger at the individual that arrives, rather than the people responsible for orchestrating the whole process. These individuals are often ‘sold the dream’ and hooked in by organised crime groups who direct them to the UK. I’ve looked at sample routes from different parts of the world (screenshots may be pending) and these are complex and would need local people, as well as law enforcement, customs officers and other government officials to turn a blind eye involved in smuggling across multiple borders.

It’s no secret that these crossings likely cost a lot of money, and I think it would be safe to assume that refugees would often be in crippling debt to the OCGs who will put pressure on them to pay it back, by threatening them and their families and I would go as far as to say they could then be coerced in to further committing crimes when granted asylum in order to pay back their debt.

These OCGs are likely involved in other trafficking / crime, not just of asylum seekers but likely drugs, weapons and sex as they have the connections across those borders.

I think it’s very unlikely that an asylum seeker is sitting there looking at all the European government websites and shopping for a country with the best benefits package and approaching a trafficker with a brochure like they’re picking a Jet2 holiday. But this is the narrative that’s often put us and fuelled in the media.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a better system and want to control our borders better on a whole, but this sheer anger and blame placed at the human in front of us seems very misplaced, when they were likely manipulated in to thinking they can have a better life in this particular country and not another, and the problem is way way bigger than an individual.

(All NHS consultants).

If the Spanish government granted me a passport (which they wouldn’t, because I’d have to be born there) - would that make me Spanish?

As Spanish as those who were born and educated there, who’s ancestors have lived there since time immemorial?

Of course not. It’s a legal designation, nothing more.

Considers them British. Technically and factually they are British.

Regards

Dances with Wolves.

Likewise.

Perhaps. And I don’t think people in that particular scenario would claim to be ‘Britons’ per se. We were widely talking about their offspring and whether they would be. But according to one poster ‘you may be born in a stable but that doesn’t make you a horse’.

Your wonderful experiences cancel out the stress and misery endured by others, I see.

No worries everyone. MrsSkyler had a great experience, so nothing to worry about. Any problems, she doesn’t want to know, in fact she’d prefer it if we just shut up 😄

Quite. I referred to a recent, interesting documentary series called Human.

We were all African, originally. I have white skin and blonde hair. My 9x great grandfather was the illegitimate son of a Scottish Baron and a black slave in Jamaica. When did I become a “Briton”, I wonder?
It’s all such a nonsense. We are all human beings.

‘We’re all human beings’

You see the world as you’d like it to be, not as it is.

There are human beings in the world who actively dislike you, your values and your principles. Do you wish to live alongside them?

What a ridiculous and nasty post. I can assure you my experience with cancer was far from wonderful.

The fact that that poster had a difficult experience at the hospital was not the fault of the immigrant patients who had as much right to be there as she did but of an inadequate NHS systematically mismanaged by a series of dreadful Governments. Thank goodness for the immigrant expertise that keeps the service running.

So you don’t agree that “we’re all human beings”?

I have seen a great deal of the world over the decades, with leisure and work travel. People are people.

Yes, there are people as you describe in some countries. The majority of immigrants to the UK are not wanting to live alongside them, either. That is why they chose to come here and contribute to our society.

What does this mean in practise? In terms of borders that is

The original post on that subject was mine. It’s not the fault of an inadequate NHS that we struggle to even communicate with patients who can’t speak a word of English, that precious time is wasted and no treatment can be done for them. We’re not at fault.

Thank goodness for the immigrant expertise keeping it all going, you say. I wonder what you’d make of our lunchtime discussions. You’d be happy with treatment carried out by healthcare professionals who believe in witchcraft, I take it?

I wonder if you became a Briton when that Scottish baron got involved. He saved you from a life of being from somewhere else.

The first inhabitants of England were Neanderthals. Clearly in some cases we haven’t come that far.

What does what mean in practice?

I was asking when I became a Briton?

In terms of borders, if an asylum seeker is granted refugee status, they remain. If they are not, they are deported. Fairly clear, I’d have thought.

I’m not bothered what healthcare professionals believe or do outside of healthcare.

I’d like to be treated by someone qualified and capable, they can do what they want outside of that.

‘People are people’

No, they’re not. They don’t all think like you, care about the things that you care about, value the things that you do. If they did - we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. There would be no problem. Some things they contribute we might even be happier without.

You prefer to think idealistically about the world, and ignore the very real problems.

The ‘we’re all humans’, we are but most still think we are divided by borders and they are a practical way to organise things. So you must recognise a person can belong somewhere over another place if you see borders as practical.

It directly impacts on their care of patients and attitudes towards the issues they present with, sadly.

Got involved, by raping a black woman he owned.

I agree, in some cases “we” haven’t. (Though that’s not the insult you intended. Neanderthals had a far more complex and rich society than was depicted by Victorian commentators. Up to date discoveries have blown that old nonsense out of the water. Again, would recommend watching Human, with Ella Al-Shamahi. Very interesting.)

My x partner had a genology test. It came back as 3% Neanderthal. Still makes me laugh.

Try me then. If your friends at the Premier shop have British passports, in what way can you say they're not British? Bearing in mind the definition a PP kindly found for us that says, 'citizen or native of Great Britain.'

So you are stating that you think people in Britain are superior to those of other nations?

Fair enough. At least you’re honest. It’s the dancing about and failing to own opinions by some that is so awful.

Most people have at least 2%. Clive Anderson has 4.

Can’t say I’m particularly interested in watching someone who describes themselves as “wokey-progressive — definitely left-wing” 🤣

Even though she is merely narrating latest scientific findings by experts in the field from around the world?

Why would you not be interested in those?

And you call me “Neanderthal” 😁