To think there is some kind of weird push towards the far right?

[Checkcheckout]

I’m the first to admit that I am not the best informed - I prefer to keep my life stress free and simple as much as possible, and don’t have a TV, don’t read papers, and only listen to the radio when I’m driving (which is quite often). For my own mental health I prefer to live in my own little bubble.

But even with my limited exposure to media, I’ve noticed on Radio 2, both on the news and Jeremy Vine’s show, Reform are being given so much air time considering their paltry amount of MPs, the polls are being discussed regularly even though we’re years from an election. More than once listening to the radio I’ve thought the way they’re talking makes it sound like Reform winning the next election is a done deal, and thought to myself that this is how self fulfilling prophecies happen.

My algorithms on FB are seriously messed up. Despite having never been remotely interested in anything in the least bit right wing, all of a sudden I’m getting endless posts from knuckle dragging ‘patriot’ groups that I don’t even follow, with really horrendous and openly racist comments, thousands of them, which somehow FB are allowing to remain even though any kind of hate speech has always been censored on there. Why are these posts suddenly being allowed and pushed in my face?

Alongside this there seems to be a new story pretty much every day about the latest scandal involving Labour (again reported by the BBC), ok these things aren’t great although compared to the Tories’ rap list from their last spell in government, are fairly small fry really. It seems like there’s an active push for people to rebel away from the left just as the far right are gaining momentum.

Has anyone else noticed this or am I talking shite?

Why haven't they provided detail?

Removing EHCP = removing legal protection for families when faced with children whose needs can't be met without legal protections.

Unless and until they expressly state what they are going to replace this with and how they are going to ensure the needs of vulnerable children are met then I don't trust them one iota on this issue.

You may want to see schools a 'more inclusive place' but they can't meet the needs of children with complex needs.

Taking away appropriate education from children kicks the issue down the road.

This is precisely what I feared a Conservative government would do. But no it's going to be Labour instead!

I'll stick my two penneth worth in here! There are lots of different areas of change which are now 'joining' together to create an almost perfect storm of slightly odd people being allowed to shout their ideas, rather than discuss them.
This is down primarily to governments shutting down any conversation which may be tricky for them, or possibly cause difficulty in creating an answer which doesn't upset anyone.
Add to this, the current movement in various countries for 'the ordinary person' to be allowed to shout and behave in a general nasty way (only if they are the right colour mind you!)
Throw in a bit of religious change and 'not Christian' (although how many of those who complain go to Church regularly....)
Then finally sprinkle some keyboard warriors onto social media, et volia! a perfect storm.
There is no easy way to stop this momentum, in the UK, the Government needs to wake up and smell the coffee, their inability to admit wrong doing, whilst getting all upset about hurty words, rather than knife crime or shop lifting has really pissed the public off, but the worst bit is that it's a Labour government doing this, people realise they will be ripped off by a Tory government, but this one, is doing it twice as well as the Tories ever could do!

As for the argument that an election is years away, it's not if various decisions are made, yes the nasty part of the right is being heard, but then what about the stop the oil, the nasty left are just as bad, except they doing look as intimidating as the nasty right.

No, do you not understand how the media works, it's 'business' it's in their interests to whip up controversy and division, Populism sells more!

No - of course not. But that poster is attending protests against immigration because of an incident of sexual assault by an asylum seeker and a feeling of 'intimidation'.

But sexual assault and violence against women and girls is overwhelmingly committed by white, British born men, and the immigration protesters include a lot of domestic and sexual abusers. Two in five of the people arrested at last years protests had existing reports of DA.

So I was just wondering why they don't feel the same about white men and why they are happy to protest with them, given the higher risks.

There’s a lot of rhetoric/ hyperbole at work in the media.
If you don’t like illegal immigration, you’re ‘far right’. If you want women only spaces you’re ‘transphobic’ and so it goes on.

The demonisation of anyone who has a different opinion to the one being promoted by the establishment seems to be the norm.

It is very similar to Mc Carthyism in the USA when anyone who was slightly left leaning was accused of being a communist and an enemy of the state.

Yes I remember this but Nick Griffin was ousted and Nigel Farage is celebrated. Scary times we live in!

What makes one government more left wing than another? I think everyone has a different idea of what left wing means. For me - it would a high tax high spend economy with much more government control over businesses. Which is pretty much what this gov is doing.

Unfortunately in the UK there is a portion of the working class that has never been well represented politically in the past. There is very much an ‘us and them’ class barrier to voting and political parties. Some of this portion would have voted labour in the past but will often have been divided by a pro and anti trade union split. Some would have voted against tories so voted labour. Some would have been anti labour and held their nose while voting for the tories or not voted at all. Unfortunately this portion is now represented for some by the far right more than the current Tory/Labour party. They see both of these parties in the ‘them’ category and the far right are trying to make themselves the ‘unheard us’.

All around me in terms of locals and the people I work with there is still an ‘us and them’ attitude day in day out. It is lethal that the far right is claiming to be on the side of ‘us’. No-one else is - labour is now seen as ‘them’ and elite.

I am from a working class family (miner grandparent) but they are all labour and despise reform so I know this is just a small portion of the working class but this is what I see day in day out in taxis, in work, in the hairdressers on local Facebook sites and these people don’t have a political home. If reform become that home then that is horrifying.

What comes next is a further far right party and then reform seem mild in comparison and so they become a more ‘reasonable’ voters choice. It’s a slippery slope…

Reform are nothing like the BNP. I won’t be voting for reform but I think it is completely incorrect to put both parties in the same ideology grouping.

This thread went mental over night then?! Lots from other countries commenting...interesting.

I would love anyone to explain why everyone is going on about where Reform is polling? We are years away from a GE and just because Farage wants one, does not mean it will be so. I think the press has to stop fanning this idea he can just make one happen.

I personally think there are fascists in every walk, from police to teachers to journos. The Kirk shooting BBC correspondent was going on and on about him being Antifa - bald bug eyed guy I could imagine on a Farage ramble through London. Loads of the police who seem to be hell bent on showing up Starmer by storming and arresting people for doing quite innocent things and backing Musk's "free speech is shit in UK" rhetoric. It's everywhere, some people are enjoying a moment in these middle management roles where they can disrupt, which is what all these (mostly men) seem to want to do, rather than build bridges or move forward.

Because the possible changes have literally just been announced and don't actually say that they are definitely getting rid of EHCPs...the plan will follow and will go out for consultation. Making these announcements is a way of gauging initial opinion while also doing other 'soft' consulation to help develop the plan.

That plan will then be released for formal consultation. Or would you rather they just develop it on the back of a fag packet without gauging opinion.

Getting rid of EHCPs does not equal the removal of legal rights. It is just the current mechanism by which those rights are conferred and they have said they will not reduce legal rights. They want to change the mechanism because the current one does not work for children, parents, schools or health services.

Wait and see what the plan looks like - if you still don't think it will work then use all of the levers you can to contribute and reply to the consultation, but don't discount it until you know whether it is better or not.

And I want to see schools as more inclusive exactly so those with more complex needs can receive more help - if fewer children with moderate needs, need additional support because it is automatically provided in schools or the school system is more attuned to diverse needs, then it frees up resources so those with more complex needs receive better and more timely support.

But why the BBC? It doesn't rely on revenue. It is meant to be balanced, not populist clickbait. Educate, Entertain, Inform.
The mis-reporting of numbers at the Anti-Brexit march is where I first noticed it; a few hundred turned into a few thousand when a million or more turned up.

Propaganda.

Is "The Left" perfect and have they never made any mistakes? Of course not. However, they are not responsible for half the shit they are accused of.

This is not even looking at the fact that "The Left" has had little to no power is most western countries for at least a decade (and in many even longer than that). They are just a convenient scapegoat, because we have forgotten what let up to the second world war. The rhetoric and events and baseless accusations being thrown around are all eerily similar.

Also, what is or who are "The Left". It's this nebulous concept of a group of people I doubt even exist as such, who are holding every view someone else hates. If you disagree? "The Left". An atrocity happens? "The Left". Problem not having been solved for a long time? "The Left"

Etc, etc. I am really tired of it. At this point "The Left" may as well be a new deity or demon, depending on your point of view.

Remember, Labour came in to government, telling untruths during the election, then talking down the country, then viciously picking on various groups including OAPs, SMEs farmers and PS parents etc.

Now they have proven themselves to be incompetent and duplicitous.

In summary, we have a terrible government in a bitterly divided country.

There is no common ground, currently.

It's an absolute farce that PPs and the general public are claiming disillusionment with the left as a reason for supporting far right politicians and giving them more airtime.

Why are we in this mess?

• Right wing America and soft right wing Tony Blair going to war with the middle east for (mainly) capitalist oil snatching reasons, kicking off never ending repercussions and displacement of people from that region
• Rampant capitalist (right wing) economies causing the 2008 crash, making us all poorer and we just haven't recovered from there
• Right wing idiots being opposed to migration from the EU, despite most migrants being working people and families who pay tax and contribute to the economy
• Brexit caused entirely by right wing politicians, an absolute own-goal disaster headed by the man we're now supporting for PM? Insanity
• Right wingers in charge of the disaster of COVID. We all watched as they made things worse on a daily basis and as they made their useless friends rich from dodgy contracts with our tax money.

But go off, it's all Keir Starmer's fault. I despair.

Absolutely agree. The emotional language used to describe political parties is strange too. Even on this thread - words such ‘horrifying’ or ‘frightening’ are used to describe the concerns of people if reform win an election. I think this rhetoric comes straight from social media bots. Whipping up and scaremongering. It started with the spin of the Blair and Alistair Campbell and then the Brexit campaign. Since then reasoned arguments and views seem to have been pushed to one side and drowned out by fearful and shouty extreme language.

Someone isn’t racist if they vote reform, or a communist because they vote labour. The extreme language and emotional fervour has completely replaced normal political debate.

Yup. And they’re astroturfing here too. Mumsnet has turned a blind eye long enough to enough stuff that they’re fertile ground.

Edited, I posted an incorrect link.

I agree with this.

I'd go one step further and say people are being labelled in this way in an attempt to shut them up. Shutting up someone is always easier than debating with them and trying to find a solution. That worked for a bit until far right/left became meaningless.

Now the people being labelled are more annoyed and so you see less centrist, middle of the road politics and more Reform/Jezbollah parties.

I think a lot of people are fed up with the 'don't rock the boat' politics of recent decades because they feel their opinions have been ignored and they've been vilified as far right/left (exactly as happened with the witch hunt that was mc carthyism in the states).

It's impossible to say who will win the next GE but I think we are in for some very rocky political and social times.

People don't seem to have learned anything from the Brexit fiasco which I find scary.

Nothing like this.

Reform's poll numbers are roughly equal to Tories & Labour combined.

One poll last week had Reform at 34%, Labour 19% & Tories 15%.

One comment only - I find it interesting that so many defending Reform or far right policies like to blame the left for their new found opinions.
if you vote Reform you own that vote, you can’t blame other people or ideals especially when that potential Reform government delivers zero except more chaos.
That will be on you and your likeminded ‘patriots’

Presumably the reason people are disillusioned with the left is because they want investment in the NHS, education and jobs. None of those things happened under a right wing government so it doesn’t make sense that they are now pushing for an even stronger right wing government as the answer. Unless the above aren’t the issues people care about and all they really want is to see an end to immigration and ‘the boats’. Or people have been manipulated into thinking that clamping down on immigration / illegal or otherwise will somehow usher in a golden age of prosperity in the UK.

Like that satrical (I hope) clip of the guy being interviewed at one of the protests:

Protester: "They are coming over here and taking our jobs"
Reporter: "What qualifications do you have"
Protester: "None, they're taking those as well"

It would be hilarious if the sentiment wasn't so real.

"Foreigners can't be allowed to assault our women...that's our job" 🙄

Violence against women and girls is abhorent in all it's forms and I'm pissed off that people who have never had a thing to say about it now use it as an excuse to channel their racism and cause distress to women and children in the hotels or who live in places where protests are taking place.

The collective trauma of women and girls should not be a tool used by the far right to further their agenda and push to an authoritarian society which will erode our rights and safety even more.

According to government data Foreign nationals (immigrants) make up around 9-11% of the UK population but account for about 15-23% of sexual offence convictions, with conviction/arrest rates for such crimes about twice as high as for the UK-born population.

Clearly, in terms of numbers - uk born nationals will have the highest figure for sexual offences. However the above data shouldn’t be dismissed as irrelevant, especially if the offences are geographically highly concentrated.