To think there is some kind of weird push towards the far right?

[Checkcheckout]

I’m the first to admit that I am not the best informed - I prefer to keep my life stress free and simple as much as possible, and don’t have a TV, don’t read papers, and only listen to the radio when I’m driving (which is quite often). For my own mental health I prefer to live in my own little bubble.

But even with my limited exposure to media, I’ve noticed on Radio 2, both on the news and Jeremy Vine’s show, Reform are being given so much air time considering their paltry amount of MPs, the polls are being discussed regularly even though we’re years from an election. More than once listening to the radio I’ve thought the way they’re talking makes it sound like Reform winning the next election is a done deal, and thought to myself that this is how self fulfilling prophecies happen.

My algorithms on FB are seriously messed up. Despite having never been remotely interested in anything in the least bit right wing, all of a sudden I’m getting endless posts from knuckle dragging ‘patriot’ groups that I don’t even follow, with really horrendous and openly racist comments, thousands of them, which somehow FB are allowing to remain even though any kind of hate speech has always been censored on there. Why are these posts suddenly being allowed and pushed in my face?

Alongside this there seems to be a new story pretty much every day about the latest scandal involving Labour (again reported by the BBC), ok these things aren’t great although compared to the Tories’ rap list from their last spell in government, are fairly small fry really. It seems like there’s an active push for people to rebel away from the left just as the far right are gaining momentum.

Has anyone else noticed this or am I talking shite?

I said that.

I thought it wasn't me - but I'm getting flack over it !

Sorry!

I agree with you about the bar needing to be higher for presenters and particularly those who work through comedy and satire to be fired.

I can't see how his words were misleading and hypocritical. I would (genuinely) be interested to know why you see them that way?

My reading of what he said was that the MAGA crowd were quick to blame anyone but their own for Kirk's death and score political points and poked fun at Trump for being immature by talking about the ballroom construction when asked about why he didn't attend Kirk's vigil.

It is the words of the FCC chair which are political interference and against the first amendment. He said:

“We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take actions on Kimmel, or there’s going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.”

He also called it "The sickest conduct possible".

ABC pulled the show because their licence to broadcast was threatened. Nexstar which operates a number of ABC affiliates is currently waiting for FCC approval of a multi-million merger. Trump then went onto TruthSocial and praised the decision before suggesting Fallon and whole other host of presenters he doesn't like should be next.

Even if you think that what Kimmel said was inappropriate or offensive, it is certainly no worse than when Sean Hannity defended Trumps "Grab them by the pussy" comments, promoted the Obama 'birther' lie or propagated the lies about the 2020 election being stolen and he is still on air.

If Obama or Biden's FCC chair had said what Carr has said there would have, quite rightly, been absolute outrage, demands for firings and congressional hearings. I'm also fairly certain that if either of them had defended it, or dared to personally sue Fox News for $Millions they would have been impeached.

Where right wing presenters have been taken off air, it has been because of advertiser pressure or financial fears. Tucker Carlson was only sacked, despite some really horrible comments about 'the great replacement theory' and supporting a three on one attack of a counter protester on Jan 6th because Fox thought that it would look bad in the Dominion trial which was due to start the next day.

Freedom of speech absolutely does not mean freedom from consequences, but those consequences have to be based on illegality, decisions of private companies due to loss of revenue, audience or reputation or the commenters own remorse.

It cannot and should never be about hurt feelings or government interference

Apologies - I thought it was you because of your response to my counterpoint, so I retract the statement that you said the original comment.

I will amend the paragraph in my reply to you as follows:

But the comment I was responding to did not make a philisophical or ideological comment about where education sits or should sit on the socialist - neo-liberal capitalist dichotomy.

It said, in response to the suggestion that critical thinking should be taught in schools ( and I quote):
"The left already control most, if not all, of the education system from age 3 to 23"

The use of the word 'already' in that context implies that critical thinking is a bad thing, pushed by left.

The rest of my post stands.

believe me, the last thing the left needs is people to start critically thinking.

The left need people to be able to hold up falsehoods and pretend they are true.

Nope.

I haven't. And I'm free to carry on critically thinking, assessing matters on their virtues.

No lazy "what's the team position on this, I'll just follow that", or "let me check the colour of that person's jersey and then jump to agree or disagree" for me.

It makes me a lot harder to manipulate.

I think those cases are usually covered by criminal law. For me I have heard "FOS =/= FFC" many times, and it has always referred to punishments or retribution for non criminal speech, and the impression given is that the person using this cliche is enjoying the consequences immensely.

Again with your hyperbolic generalisations 🙄

Throughout this thread you have done nothing but throw exagerated assertions around about how bad 'the left' are. You have accused people of not being able to answer questions, not bring able to define fascism and of hating their culture.

When people have replied to your challenges or contradicted your assertions with evidence or direct personal experience, calmly and respectfully, you have resorted to insults rather than well reasoned counterpoints before shifting to the next attack.

You do not address the points they have raised or explain why you disagree with them and when challenged to define specifics you go off on a tangent for example when you were asked what you think British Culture actually is and which elements of it are at risk, you started going on about abolishing slavery and ancient Britains.

You have spectacularly failed to back any of your rhetoric up with solid evidence or examples and, when asked to provide specific examples of things you have alluded to, you have ignored, obfuscated or deflected the question.

You contributions on this thread and others with similar themes are a near perfect example of a Gish Gallop.

@BloominNora

I can't see how his words were misleading and hypocritical. I would (genuinely) be interested to know why you see them that way?

IMO the implication of saying Maga are trying to distance themselves from the killer, is that the killer is maga, and the distancing is therefore deceptive. That's the misleading part.
The hypocrisy is that in doing this implied framing of the murderer as of the right, he is also trying to distance his own political base from the killer, exactly what he he accuses Maga/Trump.of doing.

When you mention criminal law, we inevitably come back to Lucy Connolly and similar cases.

In cases of people who were brought before a judge for using words to incite violence during last year's riots, a clear pattern emerged. Those who pleaded guilty were given prison sentences longer than someone might typically receive for serious crimes like GBH or sexual assault. Those who pleaded not guilty at jury trial were found not guilty.

If a jury is intended to represent the sort of average opinion of ordinary people, then it seems as though the ordinary people were uncomfortable sending someone to prison for social media statements or words spoken publicly in high emotion.

It seems like the government are out of step with wider public opinion on this issue and the far right are exploiting an opportunity and filling a vacuum by noisily supporting "free speech".

But consequences are not retribution or punishment.

Someone losing their job because advertisers pull out, viewing figures drop or their employer decides they are too much of a financial or reputational liability are simple cause and effect.

It only becomes punishment and retribution when the state get involved and the should only ever happen when what has been said has caused genuine harm or risk of harm to someone.

Being offended does not make anyone a victim.

There is a huge difference between Jimmy Kimmel saying Trump acted like a toddler and the Fox News hosts who supported the Jan 6 Capitol Riots or spread lies about the election being stolen which led to people being attacked and fearing for their lives.

In theory hate speech laws are good but the definitions of 'threatening and abusive' are too vague, as is the bar for what constitues 'alarm and distress' is set far too low.

The woman who got jailed for the lies she tweeted after the Southport attacks knew exactly what she was doing and she put lives at risk so deserved some punishment (although the sentence was harsh - I'd rather have seen her do an appropriate community sentence)

Most arrests and questioning of people for things they've put on social media that have offended someone are utterly ridiculous as they didn't put anyone's life at risk, genuinely threaten violence or dog whistle to a load of followers who might.

Do I think racists, homophobes and mysogenists are the scum of the earth? Absolutely!

Do I want police time to be wasted by hauling them in for questioning because they have expressed shitty opinions? Of course not - why would we want to re-enforce their persecution complex?

It's much more satisfying to watch their lives fall apart as natural consequences take hold and they lose their friends, family and jobs because of their bigoted views.

Important to remember Kimmel also wasn't fired by Trump or the state though, the distribution company for his show Nexstar dropped it because "Mr Kimmel’s comments about the death of Mr Kirk are offensive and insensitive at a critical time in our national political discourse, and we do not believe they reflect the spectrum of opinions, views or values of the local communities in which we are located.". That presumably would have made it financially unviable for ABC to continue production. Don't get me wrong Trump would have been delighted, and for all we know there may be political pressure being placed on Nexstar, but overall this cancellation isnt that different to your examples of "natural consequences".

Bang on. It’s nothing but meaningless hyperbole and tired stereotypes.

I am a Londoner- born and bred!

It sounds very much like an alien concept to many on here.

Except the state did get involved because before the network pulled the show, the (Trump appointed) chair of the FCC threatened their licence and the multi-million.

As I mentioned in an earlier post the FCC chair said:

“We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take actions on Kimmel, or there’s going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.”*

He also called it "The sickest conduct possible".

That is the state effectively calling for his firing.

Even the day before Charlie Kirk's murder, Carr was threatening to take away the licence of media operators that he or Trump thought had 'stepped out of line'.

He said that the agency is "fully aligned with the agenda that President Trump is running."

It is terrifying that broadcasters are being threatened if they upset Trump even slightly.

Fox News never had their licence threatened by the FCC under Obama or Biden. They bitched that Obama refused to go on their Sunday shows and banned their reporters from the White House, before changing their mind after pressure from the press pool.

Even after the horrendous election fraud lies, the Dominion case and a petition from the Media and Democracy project, there was no direct threats from the FCC to their licence.

Fair points

@underthinker - this is interesting.- from Tucker Carlson yesterday:

“You hope that a year from now, the turmoil we're seeing in the aftermath of his murder won't be leveraged to bring hate speech laws to this country. And trust me…if that does happen, there is never a more justified moment for civil disobedience than that, ever, and there never will be, because if they can tell you what to say, they're telling you what to think. There's nothing they can't do to you, because they don't consider you human. They don't believe you have a soul. A human being with a soul, a free man, has a right to say what he believes, not to hurt other people, but to express his views.”

Didn't think I'd ever agree with anything that guy said! Strange times!

Sure.