To think there is some kind of weird push towards the far right?

[Checkcheckout]

I’m the first to admit that I am not the best informed - I prefer to keep my life stress free and simple as much as possible, and don’t have a TV, don’t read papers, and only listen to the radio when I’m driving (which is quite often). For my own mental health I prefer to live in my own little bubble.

But even with my limited exposure to media, I’ve noticed on Radio 2, both on the news and Jeremy Vine’s show, Reform are being given so much air time considering their paltry amount of MPs, the polls are being discussed regularly even though we’re years from an election. More than once listening to the radio I’ve thought the way they’re talking makes it sound like Reform winning the next election is a done deal, and thought to myself that this is how self fulfilling prophecies happen.

My algorithms on FB are seriously messed up. Despite having never been remotely interested in anything in the least bit right wing, all of a sudden I’m getting endless posts from knuckle dragging ‘patriot’ groups that I don’t even follow, with really horrendous and openly racist comments, thousands of them, which somehow FB are allowing to remain even though any kind of hate speech has always been censored on there. Why are these posts suddenly being allowed and pushed in my face?

Alongside this there seems to be a new story pretty much every day about the latest scandal involving Labour (again reported by the BBC), ok these things aren’t great although compared to the Tories’ rap list from their last spell in government, are fairly small fry really. It seems like there’s an active push for people to rebel away from the left just as the far right are gaining momentum.

Has anyone else noticed this or am I talking shite?

In a nutshell, right wing authoritarian nationalism, corporatism, usually highly militaristic and racist. Simplistic solutions touted for complex problems and extensive use of scapegoating, usually racial and/or cultural in nature. Fear-mongering about other races/cultures, which can be disguised as concerns about immigration and crime.

Because Corbyn is supported by Russia too.
Russia got their fingers into both the far right and the far left going back decades. Apart from a lull perhaps right after the fall of the Berlin wall, that's always been the case - and it's well documented historically. Naive to think it would be any different now.

I think its uncontroverisal to say the British education sector leans left wing.
People to the left of median centre ground politics are slightly more likely to work in the public sector, inclusing education, and those to the right are more likely to work in the private sector. Therefore whatever the government of the day, in schools, universities, education unions, and the DofE at all levels including leadership you have a cohort where average views are left of centre and that naturally should affect policy.

I think the cancellation of Jimmy Kimmel in the US should really warn us about what's to come if we are somehow naive enough to fall for the far right's lies about free speech. Americans were not prepared for what's happening right now- although how they could bring Trump back is beyond me. We don't have that excuse because we can see in real time what's awaiting us just by looking Stateside.

No I won't. Because if you march with Tommy Robinson then people will judge you by the company you keep.

Londoners could say the same about the thousands of people who come here every year.

Exactly and even the Daily Mail are calling it a far right march.

Amusing really how the left began doing this, encouraging the cancellation of people often for the most minor of perceived offences, but they don’t like the taste of their own medicine. Funny that! Happy to dish it out but certainly can’t take it.

Also made me laugh seeing a video posted by guy crying hysterically, saying he’d lost his job after posting on X that Charlie Kirk deserved what he got. The hypocrisy and double standards are incredible. He lost his job for his opinions; Charlie lost his life for his.

isn't it glorious about Kimmel?

No-one is complaining about educating people, it's what they are being taught that's the problem.

YABU. The UK is under attack from the American far right via Reform and social media. It’s terrifying how many Mumsnet right wingers have crawled out of the woodwork since the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

Don't change the goal posts - defend your point.

Yes, the concept of public services funded through taxation is technically a left leaning concept. Although in reality, it would probably be better classed as centrist view as moderates on the right also agree with how education is funded in its current form.

If it was truly socialist, there would be no private schools or grammar schools and it would receive much more funding than it does currently.

But you did not make a philisophical or ideological comment about where education sits or should sit on the socialist - neo-liberal capitalist dichotomy.

You said, in response to the suggestion that critical thinking should be taught in schools ( and I quote):

"The left already control most, if not all, of the education system from age 3 to 23"

The use of the word 'already' in that context implies that you think critical thinking is a bad thing, pushed by left.

The assertion that 'the left' somehow control education is simply not true.

Those who have power whether through election, appointment or influence control education - they control how much funding schools get, they control the national curriculum and what is taught in schools, they control how the quality of education is assessed and they control the public narrative around how teachers are perceived.

Those who have held that power for the majority of the past 45 years have not been 'the left'. The people in key appointed positions (Ofsted, Regional Schools Commissioners) are not from 'the left' and the people who currently have the most influence on both government and public opinion are not on 'the left'.

Funny how the right argue for free speech until someone says something they don't like too.

I don't agree with cancel culture at all - but all of the people who were 'cancelled' in recent years, were sacked or boycotted by a huge outcry from the public or because private companies didn't agree with the views expressed or want the negative publicity.

Not a single right wing commentator or celebrity has lost their job as a result of a left wing government department putting pressure on their employer, as the FCC has done with Jimmy Kimmel. Not a single member of the public who has been in the headlines for outrageous behaviour and subsequently lost their jobs, was threatened with prosecution by a secretary of state.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences, but it does mean freedom from government interference.

What would you have said if the Biden administration had forced Fox news to sack any of its presenters?

Sure, some were sacked, but it was down to pressure from advertisers, not the FCC!

Don't you remember Trump being banned from Twitter?

You’re doing a good job defending cancel culture while claiming you don’t agree with it.

I find that scrolling past or blocking websites works for my preference for watching silly hound videos!

However, I’m also curious where this push comes from, as I don’t believe that it’s as bad as reported!

WRT Kimmel and free speech. He shouldn't have been dropped (it was officially pressure due to the distribution company dropping the show rather than direct from Trump, but clearly Trump's words will have had a bearing on that).

I think his words were misleading and hypocritical, but the bar to be fired needs to be higher than that, especially for a chat show host dealing in political commentary and satire. I hope that after the ten minutes of gloating on this, we can all agree that the phrase "freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences" can be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Which part of what I said was defending it?

I didn't say that anyone should be cancelled did I?

I simply pointed out that those who the 'right' would say were 'cancelled' were not fired or taken off air due to pressure from government departments, nor were they threatened with federal prosecution.

How is that defending anything?

Yes - that does not contradict what I said.

Trump was banned from Twitter by Twitter who were a private company that didn't want his views on their platform and was re-instated by Musk as soon as he bought it.

Absolutely no different to the 100's people that have been banned from X since for posting things that Musk disagrees with.

I hope that after the ten minutes of gloating on this, we can all agree that the phrase "freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences" can be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Isn't that the sort of absolutist, unnuanced thinking that got us here?

All or nothing?

Are we not allowed to look at WHAT was being said, and WHAT the consequences are? Just like we do in all other arenas?

An example from another arena: life imprisonment would be an unjust consequence for shoplifting; that doesn't mean either that shoplifting should have no consequences at all, or that life imprisonment is unjust for all actions.

I don't know about you, but I'm fine with TV channels sacking presenters if they, for example, use their show to outright exhort people to violence, or to take cocaine, or I'm sure you can come up with your own egs.

Yes, it's a difficult job to pick our way through the question of was this one really exhorting people to snort coke or was it warning against it, and so on. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. We have to make well-explored, nuanced decisions all the time.

A bit like those traitors who support Palestine Action....

I do understand that for people entirely submersed in tribal politics, what I'm saying is meaningless.

But most of us are not consumed by joining teams and by "my team must win at all costs".

We're just trying to live our lives and be decent human beings. Dealing with complexity and nuance, and figuring out boundaries, is part of that.

@BloominNora You said, in response to the suggestion that critical thinking should be taught in schools ( and I quote):
"The left already control most, if not all, of the education system from age 3 to 23"

Where did I say that ?

I wasn't too fussed about being in any particular team, now I've been backed into a corner, I've HAD to join a team.