I will be spending Christmas alone and my children do not care

[Brazien]

Hello,

I have 3 adult children, my eldest DD is 31, she is married and has a gorgeous little boy who is 11 months old. They spent last Christmas with me and DD already made it clear they would be doing one Christmas with us and another with her husbands family which is obviously totally fine and understandable. My next child is my DS who is 27 and then my youngest DS who is 25.

I would say I generally have a very positive relationship with all of my children, we talk relatively frequently and haven’t until now had a large falling out, they haven’t ever raised any issues with me in terms of our relationship and have historically initiated and planned visits. I am divorced and have been for many years, I have no close relatives as both of my parents have passed away and my only brother lives in Australia.

I absolutely love hosting Christmas, it is the highlight of my year. When my children’s father and I divorced we actually agreed he would get Boxing Day and New Years Eve (our children were still small when I got divorced) in exchange for me getting Christmas as it matters so much to me. I have hosted Christmas every year since I got married at 23, I never complain about hosting or resent doing this, like I said it’s the highlight of my year. As my children have grown it has of course meant some years I’ve had all of them home and others just one but never have they left me alone for Christmas and I’d actually say they have instead made quite a bit of effort between themselves to ensure someone is always around to spend Christmas with me.

Tonight I was added to a group text message chat, it included myself, both of my DS and their respective partners. DS1 has been with his girlfriend for about a year and a half, DS2 has been with his boyfriend for a year. My eldest son then sent a message, I’ll paraphrase but it effectively said that due to my attitude and opinions in regards to his girlfriend he will not be spending Christmas with me this year as he would like to spend it with her and refuses to expose her to my “inflammatory” opinions. He said he his brother and their partners have all booked to go skiing/snowboarding instead. They then all left the group message chat before I was able to reply.

First of all, this is not a way in which my son would ever normally speak to me, it was very defensive and accusatory in tone. Second of all, the opinions he is referring to are from a conversation I had with him following a large family get together for Easter. She is 24, French and seems to have an extremely elevated ego and level of confidence that borders on arrogance. I know she has a poor relationship with her own father (her mother has passed) but he none the less funds her life which consists entirely of expensive pastimes (snowboarding, tennis, concerts) and seemingly getting drunk, using drugs and partying.

At Easter she mentioned politics, which isn’t something I’d be keen to talk about over a family meal normally but my DS said that if we can’t have a friendly debate then we seal ourselves into an echo chamber of our own beliefs. She was totally unwilling to hear me out, and kept citing her multilingual abilities, degree and “travels” as reason she clearly knew much better than I, about politics, in Britain, a country she has only lived in for about 2 years. I shut the conversation down and said this is clearly unproductive. I then told my son afterwards that I had found her attitude to be filled with arrogance. She has also blank out refused to attend my nephews wedding as it was in a church and my DD told me that soon after she gave birth she said to her “if you ever want to play tennis or go to Pilates I will go with you; I’m sure you’re dying to shed the baby weight”. DD found this quite upsetting at the time but DS refused to call her out for it.

In terms of Christmas, both of my DS had said they would be spending this year with me, DS1 did not spend last year with me but DS2 did. I was looking forward to this and despite my dislikes of his girlfriend’s attitude, I made it clear she was also invited, as was DS2s boyfriend.

I called DS1 after the message in the group message chat and explained that I had never meant to cause offence to his girlfriend or to him for that matter and only ever shared opinions as she has always seemed so keen to be forthcoming with her own. I told him that I would be spending Christmas alone and I found that very upsetting and asked him to reconsider, I also offered to cover any costs associated with rescheduling their trip. He told me quite plainly it is not his problem that I would be alone and that he felt like I did not approve of his girlfriend and would never approve of him dating someone “intelligent, gorgeous and cultured” as it would make me “insecure”. Again this is never a way he has spoken to me before. He then hung up.

I then called DS2 who said that he was sorry I would be alone but he feels they’ve given me enough time to make other arrangements and that he feels that his brother is right that I clearly don’t like his girlfriend and he wants to show a stand of support to his brother and his girlfriend who he said he thinks is brilliant. He claimed I only don’t like her as she doesn’t conform to my expectations of a polite “basic” girl who just wants to get married and go on family holidays every year.

While I would say I don’t massively like her, I’m an adult and totally capable of being perfectly civil towards her. More so the reasons I don’t like her have nothing to do with her beliefs but her sheer arrogance, ego and reckless lifestyle, funded entirely by her father.

AIBU to be quite upset by this and to believe this is most likely coming from his girlfriend? How should I approach this going forward?

I'm sorry you are going through this op, but am not surprised you've had some "pull your head in" type comments.

To put cards on the table, I am not of MIL age; my children are much younger so this isn't a self-serving opinion, but I am always a bit disgusted by the responses on here that expect mums to just kind of fade into oblivion once their dc start getting partners. It's just a total lack of respect - and of gratitude for all the effort that goes into being a mum. Yes, they will shift their centre of focus, but that doesn't mean throwing mum out like an old dishcloth - after a dressing down articulating all her out of date views and other failures and failings.

The GF sounds like a right madam. No manners, no respect, and too full of her own half-baked ideas for her own good. What is it with that generation that they seem to think they have stumbled on some Manual of Life and All Questions Answered that previous generations somehow missed out on? I know we all thought we knew it all once, but we at least had the respect and manners not to be so condescending to those who had been around rather longer. I think there is a real issue with this sort of attitude in those around your DS's age.

And he's not much better if I am honest; he sounds as though he has had his head (well maybe not his head) turned and lost all his backbone, and the comments he made about you were disrespectful. She should heed the advice I was given: watch how your partner treats his mum if you want to know how he would treat you once your boobs have dropped.

It's perfectly normal for a mother to give their opinion on a partner if they have concerns - and I would in your situation. Telling you about Christmas on the group chat was just tacky. I hope she shuffles on to some other prey...

Ooohhhh

I spy with my little eye, something beginning with N(arcissistic Mother) 🧐

To be honest, I’d love it if my DS brought home a girl like that one day. Well travelled, well educated, passionate, articulate with a bit of crazy fun thrown in to boot.

@Brazien

You don't like your DS1s GF and have made this clear to him, so he is opting to go elsewhere for Christmas. YABU to being surprised by this. FWIW she does sound rather arrogant, but you should have perhaps kept your opinion to yourself.

The whole Whatsapp thing of adding you to a group with the 4 of them, typing a long message, then leaving is utterly pathetic and childish and your DS1 should be ashamed. He behaved like a tw*t.

You have plenty of time to sort something else out.

If you love Christmas so much, then use the money you would have spent on their presents, and use it to bring joy to others. Buy gifts for those that often go without. Or pay for a meal for homeless/disadvantaged. Work in a shelter.

That's just unfair.

It's poor form to rock up at someone's house and hold forth about how their political views are all wrong. And who comments on a new mum's weight? If there is any narcissism in the mix, most of it is the GF.

I’m not sure what your way forward here is OP:

scenario 1, they get married, have children you have alienated your dil who will be guardian of the grandchildren, no big family christmasses. (This scenario is actually looking very likely)

scenario 2, you send an apology, give them some distance, for the love of god find something to do at Christmas that doesn’t involve moping at home so they all go around loudly not being guilty about it. eventually the dust dies and you’re able to find some way forward although you’ll never be trusted by her and it will always be awkward.

scenario 3, they break up he comes running back to you profusely apologising - this scenario will not happen.

Honestly scenario 2 is your best option. Send an apology then back off and whatever you do find something to do on Christmas Day don’t play the martyr they’ll not thank you for it and it will make matters worse.

Yes, I agree any victim or martyr reaction will be the nail in your coffin op.

But I am on your side: the gf sounds foul.

I was ‘taking issue’ with the idea that OP is objectively correct about the girlfriend; party to some truth the son is currently blind to but must inevitably see.

But yes, hopefully OP can resolve this. The girlfriend doesn’t seem like a bad person at all imo, she’s just someone that isn’t like OP, that OP clashes with.

How unpleasant of him to repeat your private conversation when they were no longer together.
Juvenile and nasty, showing such poor judgement.

Let him off.
Lesson learned though, to be very measured in your opinions, you never know.

I certainly wouldn't be chasing him, thats for sure.

@Brazien - I think you are learning a very important lesson - even if your child has broken up with someone, you do NOT bad mouth them. You support your child and agree with them, but you don’t add your own character assassination - because if they get back together, it WILL come back and bite you on the bum.

You need to approach them all, and apologise sincerely for what you said, and then give them time and space to accept that.

Re: Christmas - could you invite some friends who are also alone, for the day? Or volunteer somewhere?

Based on your thread title 'my children do not care', you come across to me as thinking that you're the victim here.. You are the person principally, or maybe even entirely, at fault.

It's a hard lesson to learn, but as they say, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Something similar happened in my family; a mother was gratuitously critical of a prospective daughter in law and very stupidly said it where it would be overheard. That mother's children were not supportive of her, because what she had said was indefensibly rude, unnecessary, snobbish and arrogant. While they continued to love her, they never quite forgot this piece of astonishing ill-judgement.

I note you mention talking to your daughter 'not to encroach on her Christmas plans'. Be very careful that any conversations with your daughter DON'T, explicitly or otherwise, suggest to her that you're trying to be included in her Christmas plans in some way.

Your way forward now is to quietly make arrangements for Christmas that do not involve any of your children and that don't present you as a martyr either. Take yourself to a hotel somewhere for their Christmas package, perhaps with a friend if someone is up for it, or perhaps just for yourself. Or volunteer somewhere. And/or hole up at home with lovely food and a bunch of good films. Continue to make clear, when appropriate opportunities come up, to all your children that you regret what you said, not because the consequences are bad for you, but because what you said was rude and ill-judged; that you're sorry, that you understand you were out of line and that in due course you're keen to repair relationships. Then let them decide when and if that happens.

At this stage, I think the only thing worse than showing you are rude and dismissive of your son's GF would be showing that you are rude and dismissive AND also needy and self-pitying.

It seems to me everyone has behaved somewhat badly at some point in this saga. It's irrelevant who is at fault or more at fault in the scenario now.

The boys are clearly not as enamoured of OP's version of Christmas. The fact they have let her know in September they won't be attending makes it clear to me what kind of pressure this occasion comes with (from bitter experience).

Realistically, it is one day in the year. Just a day. The pressure, and the obligation, and the guilt, and the forced family gathering... I think they just wanted to go skiiing and not do all of that, and that is their choice.

She was totally unwilling to hear me out, and kept citing her multilingual abilities, degree and “travels” as reason she clearly knew much better than I, about politics,

Can't think why OP might have clashed with her. Must be op's issue ...

Yes, there's truth in this.

And possibly, op, they are using the issues around the GF as an excuse to go ski-ing. And going ski-ing is fine ( it sounds great!); but it would have been far better had they just said they'd rather go ski-ing this year.

I love Christmas, too. But every since my daughters became young adults, I've recognised that the family Christmas Days of yore weren't going to last. That I wouldn't be their only option or priority, especially when they were in fairly committed relationships. Also one of them has to work on alternate years.

I've been very lucky so far, and other than one year, have managed to have all the family round on either Christmas Day or Boxing Day. But I've had to adapt and not take anything for granted, as will you.

Yes, you were massively unwise in alienating the girlfriend and your son. But Christmas alone was bound to happen at some point. My suggestion is the same as others'. Instead of trying to have a traditional Christmas that week just be disappointing, do something entirely different and go away.

I do agree with this though:
I think the way they told you was cruel and very humiliating, especially to add their partners in the chat. Especially as they all then left the chat. That was really unpleasant of them.

Saying that she is 'deeply unpleasant' is a massive character assassination and there is no coming back from that. No doubt DS2 will have told DS1 who will have told his girlfriend.

I think that being on your own at Christmas is probably the least of your worries. If your son marries her and has children, you might not have a relationship with any of them.

Who does that? Someone that isn’t adept at navigating British cultural norms.

Being confident and direct, debating politics, and offering weight loss advice are not thing that are universally considered rude or impolite at all. Those are very normal things to do in my own native culture, and are in fact embraced as positive. British norms can be very difficult to make sense of (especially when aspects of it you have been raised to view as rude), and it’s inevitable that someone unfamiliar with them won’t have the mastery that someone born and raised with them would.

You said this about your son's girlfriend to your other son that she is arrogant, self indulgent, reckless and had an inflated sense of self”. How did you not think before saying this to him?
Once you said this about her there was a good chance he repeat this back to his brother and being honest some people like to cause drama.

My feeling is that for years you have had things your own way and are now unhappy that they are not going to be around this Xmas. Your blaming his girlfriend for this but in reality they have decided to do what suits them. You made it very clear how you feel about his girlfriend and you sons might have decided this was the year to do what they wanted for Christmas for a change.

You need to take some responsibility here for this and realise that your kids are now in their 20's. They don't want to be at home every Xmas day. What son wants to bring home his girlfriend for Xmas dinner when he knows how you feel about her?

In your situation I would apologize to your son and his girlfriend in person. I would then make plans to go away for a few days over Xmas and let them do their own thing.

@franpie My DD (20) sounds similar to the GF although she’s STEM-focused and I hope that she’s not taking coke!

I can honestly say that I’d be mortified if she spoke to her partner’s parents the way the GF has done. Having a lively debate if everyone’s up for it is one thing, but a debate isn’t what happened. As for the group text business…yikes.

Doesn’t anyone else think that older generations should be treated with respect? Perhaps we’re odd for bringing up our children like that, but most of their friends behave similarly.

I also think it’s telling that the GF has a “poor relationship” with her father, even though he’s keeping her financially. If this is how she treats parents, it’s quite probable that she’s fallen out with him as well.

As I said upthread, sit tight and let the dust settle.

One of the skills that travel is supposed to bring to us - and apparently the GF has a great deal of these skills - is the ability to navigate the cultures we travel to and to be sensitive to the nuances of interaction.

Certainly if I ended up upsetting the host, I would not be falling back on insisting my extensive knowledge of the ways of the world had served me well.

Exactly.

After reading this update OP I think you have some serious bridges to mend and some grovelling to do!

My MIL had opinions like yours about me she thought I was controlling, had "twisted my DH around my finger" and that I had caused DH to turn against his family. Reality is very different and it's her behaviour that has driven my DH away.

If you want to salvage a relationship with your DS's then I would examine why you decided to voice this but also to try and build the bridge with her.

Depends on exactly how the conversation went, doesn’t it? OP being older doesn’t make her an expert on life, and this girl does have life experience and perspective that OP doesn’t.

Did she actually say “I know better than you because I’m well travelled and multilingual”, or did she just not meekly defer to OP and make reference to things she’s learned and experienced in a life that OP can’t relate to? OP does sound like she’s got a chip on her shoulder about this girl’s background, and when someone has that it’s very easy for them to perceive anything you say about it to be an attack.

Perhaps OP did say something that was indeed objectively wrong, and didn’t take kindly to being corrected.

But there are different cultures at play here. She is French. They are incredibly direct. I have a French friend who is constantly teasing me about how offended I get when he says direct things at my dinner table. He doesn’t intend to cause offence but it is just how he was raised, to speak his mind. “Liberte, egalite, fraternite” and all that.

My DD is very passionate and has very much been raised to mind her manners at a dinner table. But she now enjoys my friend coming over to dinner as she energetically debates various topics with him without fear of causing offence. It’s quite refreshing (if a little exhausting) to watch.

Well given the op says she "kept citing her multilingual abilities, degrees and travels." I think we can assume she went further than respectful disagreement.

I mean, come on, in what culture are those behaviours not just being a twat?

And yes, since we are apparently allowed to shout it loud and clear for leverage, I have travelled too - and thankfully not rubbed up against too many people who think that makes for polite discourse.