Black people don’t really matter but the loss of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy.

[QOrion]

I posted this in response to a short thread on Feminism and Women’s Rights but I want more people to see it. I want to have my say, even if I’m late to the conversation, and even if most people don’t care. I don’t expect many replies but maybe I’ll make some people think about what I’m saying.

I guess none of you are black. It’s the only way you can go out of your way to highlight this man’s ’virtues’. I don’t believe anyone is born bad or is irredeemably bad, I guess that’s my Christian upbringing, but I also don’t understand the deification of this man and the need for many people on this website to paint him in the best possible light. He’s not the first public figure to be shot and killed, even this year. If those deaths were even mentioned on Mumsnet, they certainly weren’t given much attention.

I’d never heard of Charlie Kirk before he was shot and his death had little impact on me. I have serious issues in my own life, people are shot and killed in America every day and there is a lot of suffering going on around the world, a lot of atrocities committed. It didn’t seem to be an incident that affected me in any significant way, even when I discovered his position on transgender ideology. I share essentially the same position on transgender ideology with many people I don’t want to be associated with.

Then I read his comments about black people. I can’t wax lyrical about how Charlie Kirk was ‘decent’ and ‘respectful’. How, ‘Isn’t it nice he gave his political opponents a platform’. And I can’t feel any kind of kinship with people who, knowing what he’s said about black people, still feel compelled to highlight his good qualities.

Let me be clear: I don’t believe he should have been killed. I don’t even support the death penalty in any circumstance, so I can hardly support Charlie Kirk being killed. But I am learning, not for the first time, that Mumsnetters in general, and users of this subforum (FWR) tend to ignore black people and our concerns, until we are useful. Whether that is taking cases to court when much is made of the claimant’s ethnic heritage (why?) or the perennial ‘transgenderism is womanface, it’s offensive like blackface’.

You have no idea and I think it is possible you will never understand just how much slights about my ethnic heritage cut deep. Slights to my womanhood are pretty trivial in comparison. I think this is something white women will never understand. So, you go on singing the virtues of Charlie Kirk. We’ll be here the next time you need to exploit us for your own purposes.

I don't disagree with the definition. I just think we are interpreting it differently is all. Funnily enough, I thought my interpretation was the 'old' one as it was explained to me in 1986!
I think we are in agreement where it matters anyway. Its been interesting to hear your opinions.

I do have something to say. You're sprouting nonsense. Critical race theory is a divisive tactic to beat innocent well meaning white people with.

👏👏

I suppose with the Arab "porta potty" parties you can't possibly conclude the non white men had power over those girls . No... I suppose we have to still apply the old critical race theory comparison hey. (That's doing wonders for cohesion by the way ) Some people on this thread need to just acknowledge that racism can and does include all races, including white people.

Someone mentioned Occam's razor. Well... The simplest answer is quite obviously that white people do indeed experience racism. Not the absolute acrobatics some on here are trying to conjure up to try to justify (according to CRT) why a white person still has more power than a black person in every given scenario. That theory is not only irrational and wild in places : it's dangerous.

They hate Michelle Obama because she has more class than they could ever dream of.

You realise you've just quoted that poster who asked not to be quoted unless you actually have something to say ? 🤭

(Although I dare say they'll be fine with your applause and agreement of course ... )

That was an odd case. The police said it wasn't a hate crime. There was some romantic element. Can't remember what.

I do remember though that the two sisters moved to the US after their father murdered their mother. Pretty tragic all round.

Oh I'm sorry.... Were a load of white people standing next to the victims and all walked away ?

The odd woman choosing to travel first class to be paid £30k for someone to shit on them is not racism. If it’s even real, it sounds like an urban tale.

I dread to think what some Only Fans accounts do here in the UK, like Bonnie Blue. Is that racism too? Or is that ok because Bonnie Blue is making money from sex with mainly white men?

Aren’t you ashamed using that poor girl’s tragedy to push your racist agenda?

And..... There we have it folks. Here it is : I'm "racist" . I just knew that gem was coming. I cannot even engage with someone like you.

You are the problem.

What else are you when you keep denying that one of the people who helped that poor woman was a black man?

What other word shouold describe your behaviour? Prejudiced?

I don't believe, if you look into it (long article on BBC at the moment ) it was an active "choice" these women were poor and came from underprivileged backgrounds against very rich and powerful men, who were coercing them with money to degrade themselves. That absolutely makes them extremely vulnerable and means there's a massive power imbalance.

I've replied to this. I didn't realise it was you posting. I won't be engaging with you. If you reply I will not acknowledge you.

I don't understand either OP. He was just one man with a microphone and an opinion. About everything from what I understand.

Some things I might agree with him on, but then I might also agree with something Chris Brown says, and I'd never support him, as a known abuser.

I know very little about this guy aside from his reputation as a mouthpiece, everything I've learned about him in the last few days has not been on purpose.

I'm sorry you're feeling alienated. I don't know what the answer is.

I have no doubt that women are exploited and trafficked around the world, especially poor
women from Eastern Europe, Africa, South East Asia.

Why do you persist in seeing this as an issue that affects solely white women?

Why, because you don’t have an answer for why you keep saying black people are bad?

You keep accusing the black people on that train of being racist because they didn’t intervene in a schizophrenic stabbing of a white woman. Yet the video clearly shows that when the killer left the carriage, at least two black men did run to aid the woman.

So what is your agenda? Why is it ok for you to keep accusing them of being racist but you object to that word being used to describe your words?

Exactly. Some Michelle Obama haters have even resorted to claiming she is a man. Pathetic.

I agree with this. I also don't like the brainwashing that is seemingly happening and the vilifying of people who have spoken out against his views.
I was reading about a lady who said she didn't condone his murder and that he was proof of his own speech about gun ownership and there's thousands of people calling for her to be sacked and much worse because they just jumped on one sentence and made out she wished him dead.
I didn't know he'd said that about black people, it's appalling especially when you think that his God (not that I believe) probably wasn't a white man and from the middle east. Their minds would be blown.

Lots of us have spoken up about how nasty he actually was - his death doesn't make him suddenly a good person.

Double post again.

I just won't be able to explain this any further. If it's the least racist example we have, keep standing behind it.

It is racist. I'm delighted black people are allowed to have basketball. Perhaps the Asians can be good at maths and the white people can wave flags at it all.

I had never heard of Charlie Kirk before last week and so have spent time watching video clips. I want to make it clear I do not agree with all that he said. However it is very clear some people have never actually seen for themselves what he said. Stephen King and Alistair Campbell both quoted him incorrectly over gay people and have had to apologise. I have seen many gay and black people defend him, share stories about his kindness. I have seen him defend gay people being allowed in the Republican party, speak respectfully to transgender people, offer guidance to young black men. He did not deserve to be killed for his words.

This. So.many things he was supposed to say but actually didn't.

Sadly it is real.

Apparently it's a big plus if the woman has an Instagram following as it adds to the fantasy of degrading 'a white whore'.

No offence but it sounds like you're minimising it by saying 'the odd woman'. Unless you've found some statistics on it, which I'm guessing isn't the case as you wouldn't be questioning whether it really happens. I mean, we could say the odd woman gets murdered every year in the UK.

There's defo a power imbalance. That Ukrainian girl who flew out for one recently was found by the roadside with a broken spine/broken limbs - couldn't even speak for ages and now in a wheelchair. Apparently also a cut on her head which some reports said was consistent with somebody having tried to scalp her.

However, details are a bit shady and it's suggested she may have been paid off. The Dubai government apparently paid her extremely expensive medical bills and then claimed she'd wandered onto a construction site and fallen from height. However, she's now claiming it was Russians which sounds a bit convenient.