To feel sad some women are forced to go back to work

[JTT95]

I think it is messed up that these days a lot of women have to go back to work after maternity leave whether they like it or not. It seems like everyone is sending their babies to nursery at 1 or even earlier. I know that some women want to and are happy to go back but there are many women who are heartbroken to leave their babies so young. I wish it was like the olden days where a man’s wage was enough to suport the whole family.

The fact that believing it’s wrong to even have the desire that women should at least have a choice over whether they become a stay-at-home mother for a while, or go back to work straight away, is a fundamentally anti-woman position.

That’s why I used the term “wage-slave”… because the poster was advocating that there shouldn’t be a choice to live a life focussing on caring for her child - as a slave doesn’t have a choice - and that even desiring the choice was to be in thrall to men!

I can’t imagine ever being sad to have my financial independence, my pension and my career! So many women are so screwed by staying home.

Women do have the choice whether to turn to work. But in making that choice, they have to prepare for the consequences of it.

If you want to be a SAHP, you need to make sure it’s affordable. If it isn’t, and you don’t take steps to make it affordable, you’ll have to go to work.

Unless the argument is that we should pay people at state level to be SAHP, because - no.

It’s not such a wild concept though. Many countries do it. See examples below:

Europe

• Finland – offers a home care allowance if parents care for a child under 3 at home instead of using public childcare.
• Norway – has a cash-for-care benefit (kontantstøtte) for children aged 1–2 who don’t attend government-subsidized daycare.
• Sweden – while famous for subsidized childcare, some municipalities provide a home care allowance (though it’s less common now).
• Germany – previously offered Betreuungsgeld (a childcare allowance for parents keeping children at home), though it was discontinued at the federal level in 2015. Some states still offer alternatives.
• Austria – has flexible childcare allowances where parents can choose between stay-at-home payments or subsidized childcare.
• Hungary – provides generous family benefits and GYED Extra, which pays parents to stay home with young children.

Ok, you can quibble on whether you used the word “insist”, but you are clearly strongly advocating that a woman shouldn’t spend time as a stay-at-home mother, and focus on money and career.

Its this soul-destroying type of feminism that so many women are rejecting.

Personally, I wouldn’t support my tax being spent on that.

Looking after your own children isn’t a job, at best it’s a vocation. That you should fund yourself.

It wouldn’t be my choice, but if you can afford it - knock yourself out. Those of us who do work around our children shouldn’t have to pay for it.

I’d rather subsidise childcare so it at least went back into the economy from working parents and the childcare staff.

It makes the most economic sense.

We can 'quibble' eh?

In other words, you simply attributed views to me which I never actually expressed.

If a woman wants to make herself and her children entirely dependent on a man, that's up to her. I think it's unwise, but I'm not telling anyone else what to do.

And wanting to maintain financial independence, contribute to the family finances and maybe even make use of your education and enjoy adult company, is hardly 'soul-destroying'. This isn't the 1950s.

OP don't be ignorant. Women always worked. Often brought kids to work with them. Often kids worked from a young age themselves.

If you were affluent, middle or upper class, you had a nursemaid raise your kid and you sent the kid away from a very young age too.

Then, later, in your utopia of the 50s, kids were minded by siblings and sent to play out most of the free time while mum cleaned and cooked the whole day.

There have always been lazy people, women or men too, who'd rather not work and live off someone else, but let not pretend about motivations of some.

Yes it's easier to be rich having independent means and never having to work but the reality of sahm isnt that in 99% of the time. You are at his disposal.

Those who talk about financial independence/dependence, do you not have joint accounts and/or equal access to all household money? I'm genuinely asking, not being arsey. We share all money, maybe thats why I've felt more comfortable being a SAHM! It was very much a joint decision for us and he appreciates everything I do and vice versa.

Wickwood yes you may do but once you are no longer meeting the requirements and are got rid off half his money is only going to get you that far. Try and get a decent job after 5 or 10 year of being a sahm.
How can a grown woman be happy being treated as a dependant?
Almost everyone I met was exactly like that before the kids, typically lazyish folk who never wanted to work or study much even before the kids.
Also such relationships where women either don't work or work part time aren't equal, dad is rarely fully involved and it's really bad for the child and their development to have mum essentially solo parenting with dad turning up for the fun bits.
Boring convo again and again...

Wickwood yes you may do but once you are no longer meeting the requirements and are got rid off half his money is only going to get you that far. Try and get a decent job after 5 or 10 year of being a sahm.
How can a grown woman be happy being treated as a dependant?
Almost everyone I met was exactly like that before the kids, typically lazyish folk who never wanted to work or study much even before the kids.
Also such relationships where women either don't work or work part time aren't equal, dad is rarely fully involved and it's really bad for the child and their development to have mum essentially solo parenting with dad turning up for the fun bits.
Boring convo again and again...

We have joint accounts and access to all money in those accounts. I keep a separate savings account of my own, as does he. His is extra money for his son’s future, above what we both contribute to that, mine is my “rainy day/emergency” pot.

I actually used a similar pot to leave my ex husband. Back up plan money.

I earn approx 20k more than my partner, so on paper more of the money in those joint accounts actually came from my income. I could take it back out tomorrow and live on it. It does merge into one and become ours, but if I ever needed to make it just mine, I absolutely could.

My issue with financial dependence is that if all of the money you have came from someone else, they can quite easily take it away. It’s a gamble I would never, ever take.

So new mothers should give up their careers - no way!

That's good for you, dear, provided and unlikely it's true, you'll find the reality of others is usually different.

If we're doing wishes, I wish a woman's wage was enough to support her family. Oh and that the parent that didn't live with the kid/s was made to pay, and made to pay an amount that actually paid for their children's upbringing.

Which just shows how skewed capitalism is. I have come across women being described as unemployed when they have 3 children under 5 - the mind boggles and it would not be worth going out to work for those women, the wage would be swallowed by childcare! So it's really about getting children into nursery/child care so someone can make a profit, and making everyone pay tax even though for some mothers that is not a viable option but a pointless one.

Well put vegan

But they are unemployed. In that they’re not employed.

That’s not offensive, it’s true.

I completely agree with you. It's really sad. Most women don't have any choice whether to stay at home anymore or not and there's a decent proportion who would like to be able to. Just like 50 years ago when women didn't have much choice about whether to stay at home or not...it's the same now but it's reversed.

I also think it's worse for us now as we are still expected to do everything at home and juggle a million plates but we have to work too just to be able to pay the mortgage. Half of us are burnt out and feel we aren't meeting expectations in any area of our lives. It's pretty grim. It would be lovely if one salary would allow a bit of breathing room for us to be able to stay at home for a bit longer if we wanted to.

I have a degree and work(ed) in that field for years, so think I'll be fine getting another job if/when i choose to, I've worked all my life, technically still working as my mat leave ends this month. I cant tell whether you're joking or not?! You seriously think my partner doesn't see me as an equal because I've chosen to take a few years off to raise our baby?! Thankfully we're nothing like you describe, I suggest you get some new friends if its your friends you are referring to, completely 50/50 here and if that changes it'll be me leaving, with only half his money, so I'll see how far that gets me 😂

A woman isn’t expected to do everything at home - the responsibility is shared equally with her DH. If you’re doing everything you’ve chosen the wrong partner.

I have 3 children under 3 and work full time. If I wasn't employed then I'd be unemployed, I don't see what's so mind boggling about that.

Depends on your job
Mine is never boring

Why on earth would the woman do everything
My DH and I share everything equally

I agree with you op. When I was pregnant with my 4th child it was a given that I would stay home with him until he is at school. With my red child working after maternity leave was an absolute disaster (try doing a minimum wage part time job with no family childcare..I ended up with £200 a month wages due to paying a childminder.) I ended up not working until he was about to start preschool and that was only on Sundays. I absolutely hated trying to work when my kids were toddlers and babies it was awful