To feel sad some women are forced to go back to work

[JTT95]

I think it is messed up that these days a lot of women have to go back to work after maternity leave whether they like it or not. It seems like everyone is sending their babies to nursery at 1 or even earlier. I know that some women want to and are happy to go back but there are many women who are heartbroken to leave their babies so young. I wish it was like the olden days where a man’s wage was enough to suport the whole family.

That’s a whole other discussion (that I know has been done to death on mumsnet) but my opinion on nurseries for under 3s is very different (I.e. they are not beneficial for the majority of kids).

Yes, of course my kids are hard work sometimes but I don’t just dump them on someone else because of that and make it that problem. Yes, it’s good for a parent to get a break but it should be self funded. There’s no way she is a net tax contributor working 16 hours doing what she does and having her kid in nursery 4 days.

No I’d imagine she isn’t. But then I don’t believe it should come down to net contribution, because many people aren’t.

One of my employees is on NMW, she uses 2 x 30hr nursery placements - for her 1 year old and 3 year old, and pays for the remainder of hours they’re in.

She absolutely isn’t a net tax contributor, but that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t work if she wants to and put the children in nursery to facilitate that.

Well if it isn’t about the net contribution/economy like many on this thread argued then what is it about? If it’s about what’s best for children then the evidence for nurseries being better for children is at best debatable and so SAHM’s should receive an alternative type of funding for choosing not to put their kids in childcare.

I wouldn’t happily pay someone to look after their own child.

Not all workers are net contributors, in fact many people won’t be, their contribution still goes into the wider “pot” though doesn’t it.

Assuming we mean the same thing in terms of net contribution, the latest figure I can find is £41k - many people don’t earn that, I wouldn’t say they all should just stay home?

And speaking of deathbed regrets, wishing one hadn’t worked so hard and spent more time with their families is a big one, for men and women!

This is such a hoary old cliche which gets trotted out endlessly. In fact I think it’s a massive misconception. The only time people regret working too much is when it’s cited in divorce cases by a wife whose husband find excuses not to be at home with the family.

Lots of people regret not working enough. People regret all the time not pushing themselves to achieve their full capability. My mum desperately regretted not working hard enough. She died bitter about the fact she never managed to get back to work. I will never regret the fact my salary had supported my daughter.

I don’t believe anyone regrets doing a job they love or even one they don’t love but have had to do to survive. Why would you regret doing something you enjoy, that pays well and improves your family’s outcomes?

I 100% agree with you. It's always felt to so wrong to me.

Nah, most people work to pay the bills and if they won the lottery tomorrow, they would quit in a heartbeat. It’s been said a lot on this thread alone that most people probably would choose not to work but we shouldn’t feel sad for them. I get that you wouldn’t regret supporting your family but given a choice, yes I think most people would prefer to spend more time with their family vs their colleagues.

I agree.

I enjoy my career and get so much more out of it than money, though that is nice too. Knowing my DC won't live in poverty like I did and I'm working hard to give them a better life than I had is something I can't imagine ever regretting.

Absolutely. I’m one of the people who, if I died tomorrow, would be desperately regretful on my deathbed that I hadn’t produced more work. I would be sad not to see my son into adulthood, yes, but not working more would be right up there too.

That's quite a funny post for someone who said:
I wish it was like the olden days where a man’s wage was enough to suport the whole family

Financially I didn’t need to work but doing so enabled DH and I to retire in our early 50’s. We’re throughly enjoying this latest phase of our lives.

I'm happy for myself because I want to be independent, I want to earn and I am definitely happier when I'm working. I feel sad for my kids who had to start nursery aged 1 (which i agree is too early) and who now have very long days (about 8h in school on average including wrap around care) because I work full time.

I think this is definitely something to consider. I've seen multiple cases where the man who has been happy to fund the household when children were small start to change when heading towards 50s and thinking about retirement. Its one thing to fund the household for a few years, compared to having to delay retirement because the other partner doesn't work.

@JTT95

I think most people would prefer to spend more time with their family vs their colleagues.

Of course. But its a poor analogy. Thats like asking if someone would prefer a glass of champagne to a glass of orange juice.

Obviously not working in the moment is more fun than working. But if you were drinking champagne all day every day your life would not be great.

You would have to be either very driven or a bit odd to want to work 24/7 over be with your family. But we are talking about work as part of a balanced approach to life that also includes being with your family.

Its not a zero sum game.

You’re slightly misquoting. Moat people don’t regret having had worked, but many people at the end of their lives do regret having spent too much time at work and missing out on other aspects of life.

Honestly, I think that kind of sentimental, largely imaginary claptrap is designed to make women think it’s somehow ‘better’ to be at home with their children than pursuing their own ambitions and/or financially supporting those children. Like the people who warn the childfree that they’re going to be lonely in old age, like it’s some kind of ‘gotcha’ reason for having a child they don’t want.

Unless someone is routinely interviewing those about to die about their working lives and recording the data, there’s absolutely no basis for it, anyway.

@Bluelilacbella

You’re slightly misquoting. Moat people don’t regret having had worked, but many people at the end of their lives do regret having spent too much time at work and missing out on other aspects of life.

It's always said that people say this. Neither of my parents said this on their deathbeds. My dad died after a long, successful career that he passionately loved and which supported our family. My mum died very bitter about not having managed to get a previously successful career on track after having children.

I just think its one of these little homilies people trot out without thinking about it and it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

If someone had worked less or not worked at all their family would have less money, less stability. Saying you wish you had less money in return for having had a couple of extra years at home with their kids when they were toddlers is ridiculous. And as for "missing out on other aspects of life": you're far more likely to miss out on things as a result of not having any money to spend on yourself than you are by having a rewarding career that enables you and your family to do things you enjoy.

I suppose it could be said by an extreme workaholic who had chosen not to have children at all because they wanted to focus on work and then later realised they'd missed out on having a family.

But this isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about women who already have children choosing to work, in most cases supplementing a man's income, to enhance the family's finances and to shore up their own employability. Or because they actually need to work.

If, on your deathbed, you "regret" having helped support your family, that would be a bit of a headscratcher.

Yes I do know that.

Why do people care what random anonymous posters think though?

the implication is as clear as day)… inferring that it’s the duty of every woman to focus on money and independence, and to suppress any maternal instincts which the “evil patriarchy” has manipulated them to feel.

No, that 'implication' is not as 'clear as day'.

I absolutely won’t regret my career on my deathbed.

I take a lot of pride in being the breadwinner, and being able to earn money that means if needed I can have complete financial independence. It’s a security that I wouldn’t regret later in life.

I’ve also always been one of “those” women who needed purpose outside of the home. I’d drive myself up the wall parenting, housekeeping and doing life admin full time. It’s not enough, and I’m capable of more!

I honestly just feel sad about the lack of imagination.

It's either we go back to women not having bank accounts, or we keep the current situation of women being "independent" on paper with all the same expectations but not able to catch up to men due to the realities of pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding and caring for children, which last much longer than a few months' blip.

I see people in this thread claiming that we "need" to sever any association between women and childcare. Sure, what a noble idea, that men and women will magically 100% equally do everything to do with children despite their different respective roles in creating a child being the fundamental difference between the sexes.

I see advice to women all the time "make sure you go back to work quickly because your pension will fall behind and his will accelerate unless he deigns to give you some".

Men and women are interdependent and there are times in the cycle of life where women are particularly vulnerable and dependent.

And yet for example, there is no legal concept accessible to everyday people of a "family" or a "married couple". You can't buy a joint pension that you both have access to because you're a joint unit and one of you might be on mat leave to enable the other to work but you're a team. There is no such thing as a joint ISA, or joint savings accounts earning a material interest rate. There is no joint taxation.

These are all things that leave women vulnerable and begging to be given access to accounts because we do take more leave, step back etc because of biology but the system assumes we are 100% fungible economic units and that we solved all differences between the sexes.

I feel the same.

Financial independence is incredibly important to me and it is something that I'll never regret. I'm incredibly proud of the fact that I'm the breadwinner too and can provide so much for my family.

@SouthLondonMum22

Financial independence is incredibly important to me and it is something that I'll never regret. I'm incredibly proud of the fact that I'm the breadwinner too and can provide so much for my family.

Me too. And it’s been really really hard but is now very rewarding. I didn’t have a choice but there’s no way I would change it.

It was a choice for me in the sense that DH earns enough where me working isn't financially necessary but he wouldn't want to financially support an able adult to stay at home and I feel the same way.

Same here.

The ‘you’ll regret working so much on your deathbed’ gets trotted out all the time on these threads.
I can confidently say I will not regret working or working full time when I look back on my life.

Not only is financial independence important to me it also allows me to live where I do, and give my child opportunities I could only have dreamed of as a child.
I’m also lucky enough to have a job that allows me to travel the world. I’m currently on a trip to east Asia visiting countries I would never have travelled to on holiday. Sometimes DS gets to come too.

So zero regrets here!

Do you feel sad that men have to work?