Charlie Kirk- and the reality

[Tandora]

So here we are- they have a suspect.
The very little we know about his politics suggests he was likely to be right wing, and came from a family/ culture that supported Trump. He also is said to be an introvert, in to video games , and possibly quite mentally unwell.

So there we have it- fancy that - when you live in a context where people have access to guns and some minority of people are not well, people get shot.

Nothing to do with the evils of the “left”. Nothing to do with trans people or “trans ideology”. Just senseless violence, because people who are not well have access to guns.

So what are we going to take/ learn from this?

AIBU?

There was a high school shooting in Colorado one minute after the Kirk shooting. Two students critically injured then the shooter turned the gun on himself. No one i# talking about that though. That’s America for you.

Here is the reaction of Steve Shives, a left wing US commentator on YouTube. No glee or gloating here. It’s 16 minutes but worth listening to.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zY04Tr8dokE&t=29s&pp=ygUMc3RldmUgc2hpdmVz

Exactly

And the worst culprit is Trump. This tragic murder has provided him with the perfect way to deflect all criticism and he's milking it for all it's worth.

It’s like the left don’t like being found out.

truly bonkers

Even if America stopped their gun policy, those who wanted one for illegal purposes would still get hold of one.

He’s still 2 little children’s daddy and someone’s husband and they were in the crowd and saw this happen that to me is absolutely heartbreaking 😔

What's your point? That would still mean a lot access to guns. By comparison, we have hardly any shootings here because we don't have easy access to guns.

Yes. He ignores violence against Democratic politicians.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-condemns-political-violence-mention-attacks-democrats/story?id=125475029

I’m not sure this is actually true- it appears to be another unverified rumour that was reposted everywhere.

The BBC retracted their statement on this and it also doesn’t make sense in light of his widow’s speech.

Absolutely - and this only happened because mad men have unfettered access to guns.

OP, are you aware that Tyler Robinson's roommate was transgender, after saying there was no trans connection?

Are you aware that there is little actual evidence for this, beyond the fact the room mate had long hair and was photographed wearing a onesie?

Seems to me that both the left and the right are desperate for this fella to be one from the "opposing team". What both sides fail to understand is that they are both responsible for the extreme violence because both sides have been demonising each other, refusing to listen, to compromise, or engage in nuanced discussion.

Whatever the killer's motivations were, there will be no "winners". Just more extreme discourse, more hateful language, and ultimately, more violence.

This is yet another totally unverified rumour started by unreliable sources.

We are still completely in the dark about this man’s motives- and given the widespread initial assumption that this attack was politically motivated and carried out by a radical lefty (, and the desperation of those in power in the US for that to be true), I think the lack of any evidence of motive and political leanings so far is telling.

in my OP I said that we know very little about this man’s politics but based on the little we know so far it seems more likely that he is right wing , and that he comes from a republican, Trump supporting family. This remains the case based on the only actually verified facts we have.

The (alleged) shooter is a white man from Utah. His family are registered republicans. Tyler himself did not vote in the last two elections. Those are the facts we have.

It's not guns that kill kids, it's mentally ill people. Southport demonstrated that no gun is needed to kill children. If someone wants to, they will.

If we are in the dark about his motives why did you start a thread about his motives?

...but you can't kill a man from 100 yards with a knife. This only happened because the killer had a GUN.

Erm, no it doesn't. It has everything to do with both those things.

Yes but there’s no easier or more effective means of doing this than possession of a gun. Thats why rates are homocide are much higher in countries where there is a lack of control over the possession of small firearms.

By the way research suggests that in the UK we could radically reduce homocide if we replace sharp edged kitchen knives with rounded ones. They still work as kitchen knives but are much less dangerous. A huge amount of violence is spontaneous , opportunistic and senseless- we can reduce this violence by removing the weapons that facilitate it.

It's very difficult to express a nuanced opinion on this (or any other polarised subject).

Charlie Kirk's murder was awful. No-one should be assassinated. He is a political martyr - however, he is being canonised by Trump and the right in America. I think they are using this in an incredibly opportunistic way, and I think that should be opposed.

It should be possible to disagree with that canonisation and with his views without it being assumed that you think it's ok to shoot people. But the right are resisting that level of nuance because it doesn't fit with their narrative.

We don't currently know anything for certain about the shooter's motivations. I've read a few sources about Groypers and it does seem plausible that he could have been one, but we need to wait for more information. The Groypers use left-wing songs satirically, so those lyrics being on bullet cases could be evidence either way.

His parent’s politics is known. Not the shooters beliefs. Why are you certain on that part?

Because I’m was extremely disturbed by the deeply discriminatory, harmful and inflammatory assumptions and comments being posted all over other threads as if they were true. And I was struck by the facts that we have about the suspect who has been artested. I felt it was important to start a conversation about that.

This is the opposite of what is being reported

None of us will know his motivations until a court case and or evidence released.
But saying his family are republicans so he must be isn’t true. We are individuals politically.

obviously he is disturbed you have to be to shot someone in a calculated and cold blooded attack.

However what everyone on both and all sides should have said is this is an awful murder of someone for having an opinion others don’t like that is never just! No one should have been cheering for his death or saying he deserved it, the right saying they want revenge and it’s a war!

I’m completely disturbed and insulted that you think republican parents mean someone is right wing. It does not. As I have said - I have republican parents and I’m not republican.

stop spreading disinformation. Stop implying he is right wing when you don’t know that.