Page 34 | Charlie Kirk- and the reality

Tandora · 2025-09-13T19:14:27+00:00

So here we are- they have a suspect. The very little we know about his politics suggests he was likely to be right wing, and came from a family/ culture that supported Trump. He also is said to be an introvert, in to video games , and possibly quite mentally unwell. So there we have it- fancy that - when you live in a context where people have access to guns and some minority of people are not well, people get shot. Nothing to do with the evils of the “left”. Nothing to do with trans people or “trans ideology”. Just senseless violence, because people who are not well have access to guns. So what are we going to take/ learn from this? AIBU?

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 19:51

OneAmberFinch · 14/09/2025 19:47

Many of these quotes are completely out of context.

When did steelmanning one's opponent's position become unpopular? I am quite concerned about this trend to simply make up strawmen and not have any curiosity about the person's actual worldview might have been.

I think I could cogently write a defence of trans self-ID rights, or the case for either allowing no abortion or abortion for any reason until birth, or for why DEI initiatives lead to a better society, despite not holding any of those views.

"Summarise your opponent's arguments in words he himself would agree with" used to be the standard - I wonder how many in this thread could do that for Charlie Kirk?

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They are sound bites and published out of context to support whatever the poster’s narrative is. I explained most of them upthread. I don’t support Kirk and his views, but misquoting him doesn’t achieve anything. It just gives his supporters a reason to refute and try to take the higher ground.

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 19:52

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 19:48

And he didn’t ‘fear monger’ or anything else he was accused of. He acknowledged that the DEI programme undermined black people. He clarified that he didn’t think black pilots or any other black professionals were under qualified, but that the DEI programme introduced by the left was responsible for making people think that way. He called out the programme saying that it undermined black people and ethnic minorities and was racist for suggesting that because of their skin colour they were somehow less intelligent and worthy of a lesser qualifications.

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but that the DEI programme introduced by the left was responsible for making people think that way.

Making who think that way exactly? Him?

OP posts:

OneAmberFinch · 14/09/2025 19:54

Tandora · 14/09/2025 19:44

”If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.”
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024

I get his point was he’s worried a black pilot got there because of positive discrimination. It doesn’t matter. It amounts to the same: if he sees a black pilot he worries that he might not be qualified but when he sees a white pilot he doesn’t. Stop minimising and excusing this because it’s complete bollocks and really racist,

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Did you see my previous post about the FAA hiring scandal, which was in the (conservative) news around the time he made that post?

Stop minimising how much DEI puts a finger on the scales in some cases.

It doesn't make sense that the existence of positive discrimination in favour of black candidates would make him worry about white candidates. Like - what? I am struggling to even comprehend your logic.

EasternStandard · 14/09/2025 19:54

sniggerly · 14/09/2025 19:38

Gender ideology is the ultimate misogyny.

Yes it is harmful to women and children generally.

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 19:55

Tandora · 14/09/2025 19:52

but that the DEI programme introduced by the left was responsible for making people think that way.

Making who think that way exactly? Him?

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No, not just him.

Commentators such as Amala Ekpunobi have highlighted they find DEI initiatives insulting.
It’s not an uncommon view.

EasternStandard · 14/09/2025 19:55

Also the first op post is wrong now, after a day of information emerging.

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 19:56

meeleymanatee · 14/09/2025 19:50

Yep - as far as i am aware you are correct. However as the programme had only just started there was a lot of noise about and a lot of misinformation spread. As i said… I don’t agree with the statement but if he believed what he thought he did, and a lot of people did ! That’s why he said it.

it was a atupid comment. But what he didn’t say - which is what is said here ‘black pilots are incompetent’

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but if he believed what he thought he did, and a lot of people did ! That’s why he said it.

Right. He said it because he believed it. A lot of people believed it . What he thought/ believed/ said was false and also racist. He believed it because he was ignorant , and lots of other people were too, does not make it any more reasonable , or any less racist.

HTH.

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GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 19:57

OneAmberFinch · 14/09/2025 19:54

Did you see my previous post about the FAA hiring scandal, which was in the (conservative) news around the time he made that post?

Stop minimising how much DEI puts a finger on the scales in some cases.

It doesn't make sense that the existence of positive discrimination in favour of black candidates would make him worry about white candidates. Like - what? I am struggling to even comprehend your logic.

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There is none.

Morally correct, evidence be damned!

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 19:57

Tandora · 14/09/2025 19:44

”If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.”
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024

I get his point was he’s worried a black pilot got there because of positive discrimination. It doesn’t matter. It amounts to the same: if he sees a black pilot he worries that he might not be qualified but when he sees a white pilot he doesn’t. Stop minimising and excusing this because it’s complete bollocks and really racist,

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Nope. You’re doing it again. A one line quote doesn’t tell the whole story. The DEI programme was introduced by Biden and his government. Kirk made the statement and then qualified that that isn’t his point of view at all, but that it’s something that the left in the USA is forcing people to consider. The DEI programme was accused of admitting people into professions with lesser qualifications because of their skin colour and Kirk asserted that this in itself was racist because it assumed that people of colour were less intelligent than white people. You really need to make a sure you understand what’s being said before you post, because here, you clearly don’t.

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 19:57

EasternStandard · 14/09/2025 19:54

Yes it is harmful to women and children generally.

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🙄

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GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 19:58

Tandora · 14/09/2025 19:56

but if he believed what he thought he did, and a lot of people did ! That’s why he said it.

Right. He said it because he believed it. A lot of people believed it . What he thought/ believed/ said was false and also racist. He believed it because he was ignorant , and lots of other people were too, does not make it any more reasonable , or any less racist.

HTH.

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You seem to know more about his beliefs than you do your own.

Still waiting for you to explain how I’m a misogynist

EasternStandard · 14/09/2025 19:58

Tandora · 14/09/2025 19:57

🙄

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I’m not sure that emoji does much

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 20:00

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 19:57

Nope. You’re doing it again. A one line quote doesn’t tell the whole story. The DEI programme was introduced by Biden and his government. Kirk made the statement and then qualified that that isn’t his point of view at all, but that it’s something that the left in the USA is forcing people to consider. The DEI programme was accused of admitting people into professions with lesser qualifications because of their skin colour and Kirk asserted that this in itself was racist because it assumed that people of colour were less intelligent than white people. You really need to make a sure you understand what’s being said before you post, because here, you clearly don’t.

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but that it’s something that the left in the USA is forcing people to consider

No the policy absolutely did mot do this!!

His logic is the twisted logic of a racist person- it has / had no basis in actual reality or the reality of the policy .his round about reasoning was just a more convoluted means of excusing flagrant racism. People did not fall for it and nor should they: it was false( harmful and racist information that he was spreading.

OP posts:

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 20:01

EasternStandard · 14/09/2025 19:58

I’m not sure that emoji does much

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It conveys that that opinion is not worthy of rrespect :

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Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 20:01

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 19:58

You seem to know more about his beliefs than you do your own.

Still waiting for you to explain how I’m a misogynist

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Problem is Kirk didn’t say it because he believed it. He said it as an example of how the left was forcing people to believe that black people were somehow lesser qualified than white people doing the same job. He clarified by saying that this is not who he is, and he doesn’t believe it, but Biden’s administration was inherently racist for suggesting that people of colour needed a lesser standard.

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 20:03

Tandora · 14/09/2025 20:00

but that it’s something that the left in the USA is forcing people to consider

No the policy absolutely did mot do this!!

His logic is the twisted logic of a racist person- it has / had no basis in actual reality or the reality of the policy .his round about reasoning was just a more convoluted means of excusing flagrant racism. People did not fall for it and nor should they: it was false( harmful and racist information that he was spreading.

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No-one said that the policy deliberately did that, but unfortunately in the USA this was the perception. Kirk was calling it out as racist for suggesting that people of colour needed a lesser standard.

EasternStandard · 14/09/2025 20:04

Tandora · 14/09/2025 20:01

It conveys that that opinion is not worthy of rrespect :

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You might get the same back on gender ideology.

5128gap · 14/09/2025 20:04

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 19:48

And he didn’t ‘fear monger’ or anything else he was accused of. He acknowledged that the DEI programme undermined black people. He clarified that he didn’t think black pilots or any other black professionals were under qualified, but that the DEI programme introduced by the left was responsible for making people think that way. He called out the programme saying that it undermined black people and ethnic minorities and was racist for suggesting that because of their skin colour they were somehow less intelligent and worthy of a lesser qualifications.

Show quote history

If I was concerned about black people being undermined (given I'm white, I'd probably check out if they agreed before speaking for them) and concerned that other people thought black pilots were under qualified, and I had a big ole platform to influence opinion with, then I think I'd have just cut to the chase and explained that there would be no unqualified black pilots as the result of the scheme, so, nothing to fear at all. I mean, why go all round the houses, saying a thing that makes you sound like a racist when you could just not say things that make you sound like a racist?

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 20:05

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 20:01

Problem is Kirk didn’t say it because he believed it. He said it as an example of how the left was forcing people to believe that black people were somehow lesser qualified than white people doing the same job. He clarified by saying that this is not who he is, and he doesn’t believe it, but Biden’s administration was inherently racist for suggesting that people of colour needed a lesser standard.

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sooo …

I’m putting out there this racist idea… But it’s not because im racist. I don’t actually think this, but I’m putting it out there , because “the left” are “forcing” lots of people to think this. They are forcing people to think in ways that are really racist . But they’re not racist. Well they are sort of, but not really, because it’s the left that are forcing them to be racist , Iyswim?
This is such an good point and not at all racist, even though it bears no coherent relationship to the actual policy introduced by Biden which would in no way justify a belief that a black pilot was unqualified to fly the plane he was flying.

Got it.

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FrippEnos · 14/09/2025 20:05

Onlyontuesday · 14/09/2025 18:52

Gentle? I find much of what he stood for wrong and repugnant.

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'"

"Democrat women want to die alone without children."

"Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge."

“We made a huge mistake when we passed the Civil Rights Act in the mid-1960s.”

“We must also be real. We must be honest with the population. Having an armed citizenry comes with a price, and that is part of liberty... But I think it’s worth it. I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment.”

He didn't deserve to die, I don't celebrate his death and I find the people doing so repulsive. That said, he knowingly supported access to guns, was openly accepting of annual gun deaths, and he made a wide variety of incredibly controversial comments. If he wasn't aware of the risk he was taking he was in enormous denial.

I'm concerned how many on MN will support him because they agree with his stance on trans rights, despite him being supportive of 10-year-old rape victims being forced to give birth. I find this tunnel vision worrying, access to women's only spaces are far from the only rights worth fighting for.

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Most people on here don't support him.

As I have posted many times,
If you are going to use his words against him at least use them in context.
Stop posting soundbites and "quotes" that misrepresent what he actually said.

He said many things that I disagree with, but I refuse to support those that CBA to actually post the truth of what he did say.

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 20:06

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 19:55

No, not just him.

Commentators such as Amala Ekpunobi have highlighted they find DEI initiatives insulting.
It’s not an uncommon view.

Show quote history

Even black airline pilots have criticised it. One pilot said that in most rooms he is the most qualified, but the DEI programme means that he has to work harder at proving it simply because of the colour of his skin. It may have been introduced for altruistic reasons but it’s had the opposite effect because of public perception, and that was what Kirk was calling out.

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 20:06

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 20:01

Problem is Kirk didn’t say it because he believed it. He said it as an example of how the left was forcing people to believe that black people were somehow lesser qualified than white people doing the same job. He clarified by saying that this is not who he is, and he doesn’t believe it, but Biden’s administration was inherently racist for suggesting that people of colour needed a lesser standard.

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Yeah, it’s a sentiment shared by many black conservative commentators too.

I just think it’s funny people will focus on this one sentence, but completely ignore things like the young black leadership summit he supported.

Rosscameasdoody · 14/09/2025 20:07

FrippEnos · 14/09/2025 20:05

Most people on here don't support him.

As I have posted many times,
If you are going to use his words against him at least use them in context.
Stop posting soundbites and "quotes" that misrepresent what he actually said.

He said many things that I disagree with, but I refuse to support those that CBA to actually post the truth of what he did say.

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This. It’s been said many times on this thread, and with clear examples but stil people do it.

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 20:12

5128gap · 14/09/2025 20:04

If I was concerned about black people being undermined (given I'm white, I'd probably check out if they agreed before speaking for them) and concerned that other people thought black pilots were under qualified, and I had a big ole platform to influence opinion with, then I think I'd have just cut to the chase and explained that there would be no unqualified black pilots as the result of the scheme, so, nothing to fear at all. I mean, why go all round the houses, saying a thing that makes you sound like a racist when you could just not say things that make you sound like a racist?

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This is from someone who knew him personally.

There are other like it on SM

https://x.com/thedamanifelder/status/1966655592296063478?s=46&t=ALGAiHxwK3XXeRoDQylnWA

He spoke to many black people.
Some agree with him, some don’t.

Black people don’t all have the same opinion you know

https://x.com/thedamanifelder/status/1966655592296063478?s=46&t=ALGAiHxwK3XXeRoDQylnWA

Poetnojo · 14/09/2025 20:12

Tandora · 14/09/2025 20:00

but that it’s something that the left in the USA is forcing people to consider

No the policy absolutely did mot do this!!

His logic is the twisted logic of a racist person- it has / had no basis in actual reality or the reality of the policy .his round about reasoning was just a more convoluted means of excusing flagrant racism. People did not fall for it and nor should they: it was false( harmful and racist information that he was spreading.

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But DEI by very definition is flagrant racism!