Page 30 | Charlie Kirk- and the reality

Tandora · 2025-09-13T19:14:27+00:00

So here we are- they have a suspect. The very little we know about his politics suggests he was likely to be right wing, and came from a family/ culture that supported Trump. He also is said to be an introvert, in to video games , and possibly quite mentally unwell. So there we have it- fancy that - when you live in a context where people have access to guns and some minority of people are not well, people get shot. Nothing to do with the evils of the “left”. Nothing to do with trans people or “trans ideology”. Just senseless violence, because people who are not well have access to guns. So what are we going to take/ learn from this? AIBU?

24karatPalamino · 14/09/2025 18:09

Also as for his poor wife, I wonder how you’d react in the same position.

She watched her husband get assassinated in front of their two children, and gets to watch it over and over again on the Internet and television.

That’s not even considering the fact she is probably seeing videos of complete idiots celebrating his death, calling in some cases for her death and for her children to be taken into care and ‘raised properly’ by lefties to hate their parents.

And that’s before reading the words of know-it-alls all over the internet, who didn’t know who Charlie was last Wednesday, but today apparently know every last word he said and are experts in his debates that he had over many many years.

I don’t find Charlie Kirk a disgusting human being. I watched him a lot. Some things I agreed with and other things I didn’t. But he never came across as a bad human being. But the last few days I have sadly read the most vile, disgusting, absolute bollocks I have ever seen in my life and all of these people genuinely believe they are decent human beings.

It’s transparent and I’m embarrassed for you all. But I’m glad you have the freedom to say what you want, even if it makes you a huge fool.

Insanityisnotastrategy · 14/09/2025 18:09

FrippEnos · 14/09/2025 18:03

What I find particularly irritating is that so many posters are twisting what his views are.

If you are going to post about his views, people should at least post about his views and not the twisted versions that some are happy to put forward.

Lets be honest here, its not difficult to find proof of what he actually believed on marriage, guns, politics, trans and gay matters.

So it should be very easy to post actual quotes and videos without spinning what he meant.

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This is exactly what pisses me off. You can robustly disagree with a lot of things he said but the twisting, missing context, rewording thing just shows they're not acting in good faith and just want to go for shock value really.

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 18:10

Tandora · 14/09/2025 17:46

if You read my posts (which I don’t believe you have) you will see that I mentioned “innocence” in relation to my personal feelings of empathy or sympathy for CK. i explained that I do not have strong feelings of sympathy for CK and I explained why I don’t and why it is the utmost hypocrisy to demand that I must. However, I feel empathy for his children because they are entirely innocent in all of this.

CK was a misogynist and a racist. I’m not sure whether on mumsnet we are allowed to use the “f” word- but in my mind he was this. He was instrumental in the election of Trump and Vance who are doing substantial harm in the world, destroying American democracy , and the rights of women, minority , immigrant and lgbt people, and making us all less safe. He promoted the right to own weapons, which ironically is exactly what facilitated his murder. That doesn’t mean I support his punishment by death. I don’t support punishment by death for anyone , no matter how guilty or wrong they may be.

If it turns out they have the right suspect in this murder, I will not consider him to be “innocent”- nor will I support, condone or celebrate his execution which seems to be the plan. I think that is horrific.

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It takes 2 seconds to press ‘see all’.

The only time you mentioned ‘innocence’ at all before the post I quoted was to say the children are innocent, he is not.

I’m just trying to get to the bottom of who is the moral arbiter of his ‘innocence’.

And, in terms of his murder, why its even relevant?

Plastictreees · 14/09/2025 18:10

If the person who got shot was left wing, I doubt many of the posters on this thread would give a damn about the public reaction and would indeed be celebrating themselves.

The pseudo empathy and moral outrage is so performative. No one is buying it.

You will defend a person who promotes misogyny and bigotry and racism as long as they are in agreement with your views on trans rights. That’s what it comes down to. That says everything about you as a person. You can try to minimise, deny and gaslight all you want but CK’s words are there for everyone to read and hear.

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:12

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 14/09/2025 18:08

Yes that’s the problem.
You think you are right.

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Absolutely I do.

I do not support the use of inflammatory and violent language- like “to those who do evil”, “you do not know what you have unleashed on the world” and the “battle cry of this widow..” etc.

i do not support the election and glorification dangerous men like Vance and Trump:

I do not support extreme right wing ideology.

i do not believe in enforced pregnancy and birth , including for child rape victims.

i do not think it’s ok to groom young women and girls into believing they must “submit” to their husbands and that they belong in the domestic sphere.

I do not think that the murder of children in schools is “worth it” to protect a man’s god given right to own a deadly weapon.

I do not think I’m the problem.

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24karatPalamino · 14/09/2025 18:16

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:05

It’s funny how people who hate Charlie Kirk end up becoming experts on everything he said

why? I despise Trump but take interest in the things he says because they have influence. Do you only take intetest in things you “like” regardless of their importance in the world? odd.

“quoting sound bites completely out of context,”

I quoted what he said , entirely in its context.

Stop minimising the harmful ideologies that are creating the conditions for gun (and other) violence in the USA, these are the conditions that led to CK’s death.

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You are talking absolute twaddle. Every post you give yourself away a little bit more. Victim blaming at it’s finest.

Do the women suffering abuse at the hands of their husbands bring it on themselves for staying?

Get over yourself.

And who said Trump and Vance are bad men. Who gave you final authority to decide who is good and bad? Are you God posting?

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:17

Plastictreees · 14/09/2025 18:10

If the person who got shot was left wing, I doubt many of the posters on this thread would give a damn about the public reaction and would indeed be celebrating themselves.

The pseudo empathy and moral outrage is so performative. No one is buying it.

You will defend a person who promotes misogyny and bigotry and racism as long as they are in agreement with your views on trans rights. That’s what it comes down to. That says everything about you as a person. You can try to minimise, deny and gaslight all you want but CK’s words are there for everyone to read and hear.

Edited

Im not going to answer your question over and over again just because you keep ignoring it and asking again 🤷🏼‍♀️

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Plastictreees · 14/09/2025 18:18

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:17

Im not going to answer your question over and over again just because you keep ignoring it and asking again 🤷🏼‍♀️

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I think you’ve quoted the wrong person 😄

Snorebor · 14/09/2025 18:18

Plastictreees · 14/09/2025 18:10

If the person who got shot was left wing, I doubt many of the posters on this thread would give a damn about the public reaction and would indeed be celebrating themselves.

The pseudo empathy and moral outrage is so performative. No one is buying it.

You will defend a person who promotes misogyny and bigotry and racism as long as they are in agreement with your views on trans rights. That’s what it comes down to. That says everything about you as a person. You can try to minimise, deny and gaslight all you want but CK’s words are there for everyone to read and hear.

Edited

Well said.

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:18

24karatPalamino · 14/09/2025 18:16

You are talking absolute twaddle. Every post you give yourself away a little bit more. Victim blaming at it’s finest.

Do the women suffering abuse at the hands of their husbands bring it on themselves for staying?

Get over yourself.

And who said Trump and Vance are bad men. Who gave you final authority to decide who is good and bad? Are you God posting?

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Do the women suffering abuse at the hands of their husbands bring it on themselves for staying?

What 😂.

And who said Trump and Vance are bad men.

I see. I don’t think there is much more we have to reasonably say to each other.

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YourLemonTiger · 14/09/2025 18:18

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 14/09/2025 18:06

i didn’t know whether it was true or not, all the articles i read which you mentioned didn’t know either

which is why in a one of my earlier posts i said ‘yet’

didn't accuse you, didn't say you’d made it up…just that there was no evidence

you are absolutely right though, the evidence is through and you should feel vindicated 💐

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Thank you @rufusthefactualreindeer 😊

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 18:18

WolfingtonBear · 14/09/2025 17:53

He wasn’t. He was a moderate American conservative who was trying to have conversations - which the left constantly claim to want! - with young people. For that he was publicly executed in cold blood and millions of people were jubilant and celebratory and felt comfortable posting to the world that they felt this way.

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I agree, I think he was just a regular American conservative. Which is why he was so successful over there.

I miss when fascism meant something other than ‘says things I don’t like’.

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:19

Plastictreees · 14/09/2025 18:18

I think you’ve quoted the wrong person 😄

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Sorry sorry ! Don’t know how that happened xx

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Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:19

Plastictreees · 14/09/2025 18:10

If the person who got shot was left wing, I doubt many of the posters on this thread would give a damn about the public reaction and would indeed be celebrating themselves.

The pseudo empathy and moral outrage is so performative. No one is buying it.

You will defend a person who promotes misogyny and bigotry and racism as long as they are in agreement with your views on trans rights. That’s what it comes down to. That says everything about you as a person. You can try to minimise, deny and gaslight all you want but CK’s words are there for everyone to read and hear.

Edited

100% all of this.

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Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:20

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:19

100% all of this.

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Especially this

The…moral outrage is so performative. No one is buying it.

And this:

You will defend a person who promotes misogyny and bigotry and racism as long as they are in agreement with your views on trans rights. That’s what it comes down to.

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Martharian · 14/09/2025 18:21

Plastictreees · 14/09/2025 18:10

If the person who got shot was left wing, I doubt many of the posters on this thread would give a damn about the public reaction and would indeed be celebrating themselves.

The pseudo empathy and moral outrage is so performative. No one is buying it.

You will defend a person who promotes misogyny and bigotry and racism as long as they are in agreement with your views on trans rights. That’s what it comes down to. That says everything about you as a person. You can try to minimise, deny and gaslight all you want but CK’s words are there for everyone to read and hear.

Edited

I don’t think that’s true. I said earlier that if people were cheering on Jo Cox’s murder, I’d be horrified and I haven’t seen anything that people have posted here to suggest they wouldn’t be horrified either.

It’s not about defending Charlie Kirk, it’s about not celebrating him being killed because he holds different opinions.

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:23

Martharian · 14/09/2025 18:21

I don’t think that’s true. I said earlier that if people were cheering on Jo Cox’s murder, I’d be horrified and I haven’t seen anything that people have posted here to suggest they wouldn’t be horrified either.

It’s not about defending Charlie Kirk, it’s about not celebrating him being killed because he holds different opinions.

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It’s not about defending Charlie Kirk, it’s about not celebrating him being killed because he holds different opinions.

except no one on this thread has celebrating CK being killed for having different opinions , and you have spent your time on this thread defending his opinions and words.

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Plastictreees · 14/09/2025 18:23

@Martharian I completely agree with not celebrating his death, I think that’s in incredibly poor taste. But people are trying to deny and minimise the misogyny he stood for, which is the point.

24karatPalamino · 14/09/2025 18:24

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:18

Do the women suffering abuse at the hands of their husbands bring it on themselves for staying?

What 😂.

And who said Trump and Vance are bad men.

I see. I don’t think there is much more we have to reasonably say to each other.

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You suggested that Charlie put himself in the position to become a victim of murder. So whenever something bad happens to a person, surely we have to by that standard, look at what they did to attract that evil. Make them take some accountability? That’s what you implied.

Your opinion on anything - Charlie. Trump. Fish fingers. Is just that - an opinion. An opinion does not make you right or wrong. It does not make you the arbitrator of the truth. It does make you God. So this “Trump IS bad” is crap. To you he is, but to others he is not.

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 18:25

Martharian · 14/09/2025 18:21

I don’t think that’s true. I said earlier that if people were cheering on Jo Cox’s murder, I’d be horrified and I haven’t seen anything that people have posted here to suggest they wouldn’t be horrified either.

It’s not about defending Charlie Kirk, it’s about not celebrating him being killed because he holds different opinions.

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I don’t think it’s true either.

I’ve certainly never seen it.

I’ve never seen a comparable situation here, with thread after thread being pulled because of the amount of ‘good, I’m glad’ comments when someone on the left has been assassinated.

If there has been one I’d be interested in who?

The only other comparable situation I’ve seen was the Trump incident.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 14/09/2025 18:25

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 14/09/2025 18:08

Yes that’s the problem.
You think you are right.

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They don't think they are right. They KNOW they are right and if you don’t acquiesce to that ideology then it’s literal violence and not the ‘hurty word’ kind.

Original poster

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:25

Martharian · 14/09/2025 18:21

I don’t think that’s true. I said earlier that if people were cheering on Jo Cox’s murder, I’d be horrified and I haven’t seen anything that people have posted here to suggest they wouldn’t be horrified either.

It’s not about defending Charlie Kirk, it’s about not celebrating him being killed because he holds different opinions.

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Defending, excusing and minimising.

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RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 14/09/2025 18:25

YourLemonTiger · 14/09/2025 18:18

Thank you @rufusthefactualreindeer 😊

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Id be all over this thread with the smuggest emoji i could find

you are being very restrained 😀

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 14/09/2025 18:27

Tandora · 14/09/2025 18:25

Defending, excusing and minimising.

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Yes you are.

Any other thoughts re. the politics of the alleged shooter. I think you failed to answer that a few posts back and it’s seems youve been online being aghast most of the day now.

GoldThumb · 14/09/2025 18:27

24karatPalamino · 14/09/2025 18:24

You suggested that Charlie put himself in the position to become a victim of murder. So whenever something bad happens to a person, surely we have to by that standard, look at what they did to attract that evil. Make them take some accountability? That’s what you implied.

Your opinion on anything - Charlie. Trump. Fish fingers. Is just that - an opinion. An opinion does not make you right or wrong. It does not make you the arbitrator of the truth. It does make you God. So this “Trump IS bad” is crap. To you he is, but to others he is not.

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This is what I was asking when I asked what the relevance of him being ‘innocent’ or not is.

The inference is there, even if not explicitly stated.