Charlie Kirk- and the reality

[Tandora]

So here we are- they have a suspect.
The very little we know about his politics suggests he was likely to be right wing, and came from a family/ culture that supported Trump. He also is said to be an introvert, in to video games , and possibly quite mentally unwell.

So there we have it- fancy that - when you live in a context where people have access to guns and some minority of people are not well, people get shot.

Nothing to do with the evils of the “left”. Nothing to do with trans people or “trans ideology”. Just senseless violence, because people who are not well have access to guns.

So what are we going to take/ learn from this?

AIBU?

I’m not basing it on the website, ffs. I’m basing it on the receipts they have. I’m not a member, I just lurk occasionally, like I do on Reddit and BlueSky.

“The base should start” with the actual evidence not a predetermined narrative either way. The governor of Utah was clear what he believed and i expect he knows more than random posters on Mumsnet. The man and probably his friends and roommate too are under investigation.

Worth reading further into this rather than relying on a simple pie chart. High rates of “Right Wing” extremist victim numbers arise because of one shooter/attacker being responsible for multiple deaths during that one incident.

Read more here:-

www.adl.org/resources/report/murder-and-extremism-united-states-2024

No doubt many will dismiss the source 🙄 but the figures/details speak for themselves. Just as in the second chart Radical Islamist attacks appear high in comparison to Muslim population, this is mainly because of a high victim counts during low amounts of incidents.

https://www.ngocomment.com/p/unmasking-luna-charlie-kirk-assassin

You are a random poster on Mumsnet.

ETA His family as well should be profiled.

I’m sure they are being and I didn’t say I wasn’t 🙄

I’m directly quoting Charlie Kirk on the subject of children being shot.

In April 2023, Charlie Kirk stated during his show that "we cannot allow" victims of mass shootings to "emotionally hijack the the narrative”:

Kirk's remarks were made in the wake of theCovenant School shooting in Nashville, Tennessee , which had occurred two weeks earlier.

I think you should inform yourself about the actions of the person you are defending before you accuse me of being “manipulative” for simply sharing the facts of his words.

The quote about empathy you shared was another thing he said in a different context (it was also a completely dumb thing to say as empathy is a is scientific and measurable human psychological capacity that is distinct from sympathy - but anyway that’s beside the point).

Right wing US influencer Steven Crowder claims to have leaked internal documents from the County Sheriffs office and he already received the leak about the bullet casing (not sure how he’s getting all this stuff but it is interesting reading, although most was covered in the press conference on Friday). He’s published them on Twitter:

https://x.com/scrowder/status/1966536895925477634

I’ll await your apology @Insanityisnotastrategy

This is presumption and is setting a basis for a motive that harms:

A person not yet charged who could be secretly not out yet within the LGBT community.

The family of the not yet charged man currently held in custody.

Oh and he also said “it’s worth it to have the cost of unfortunately some gun deaths every year so we can have the second amendment.”

I think people are reading far too much into this “groyper” thing. He wore a popular meme as a Halloween costume in 2018 and that’s all we can take from that, anything more is purely speculation.

What we know for a fact is that he was the only left-wing member of his family and was very angry with Charlie Kirk’s views. We know he lived with a gay, left-wing, trans roommate, who was also possibly his partner. We know the roommate talked at length on social media about transitioning, taking female hormones, and even changed his profile name from Lance to Luna. We know the roommate was friends with a transgender that celebrated the assassination on Twitter, exclaiming “we fucking got him!”. We know they were both active in online furry communities and Tyler followed an account that posts gay furry p*rn art.

None of this screams extreme right-wing groyper to me.

The people who are doubling down and insisting he must be a right-wing extremist because his parents are republican or because he wore a Halloween costume in 2018 are going to come out of this with egg on their face.

Well said. That’s the evidence thats “emerging” at the moment, not that he’s far right, thats made up bollocks as far as the limited picture we have now shows. It’s scary how many respectable media outlets are uncritically printing that speculation as unquestionable fact. I agree that him just associating with trans people doesn’t in and of itself mean anything about why he was allegedly motivated to kill Charlie Kirk, it could be as shallow as that he just wanted to be notorious. I’m sure all the facts will come out in due course.

Agree. Let's not forget that a man in his sixties was arrested and detained as a suspect. As if he could jump from a building.

Who walks up the stairs of a building and then jumps down from it?

She’s talking about the glee and celebrations of ordinary people that he has been killed.It is worldwide and in that context is shocking to most people, a celebration of a death.
What a political leader has said isn’t making the same waves, as he is not celebrating a death.

I feel the same.

What is a fact is that he was raised by parents who were registered Republicans and Mormons and has siblings.

The parents introduced guns and shooting practise to their son from an early age.

The father alerted the authorities once a $100,000 reward was set.

The suspected shooter, not yet formally charged, is 22.

Interesting, looks like more is emerging.

Excellent post.

No that is just your assumption he was right wing, based on the political leanings of his family.
We won’t know more till further information is released.
In fact I think you just started this thread to tell everyone he was right wing when all the facts aren’t in.

He highly values the second amendment as a protection against tyrannical governments (which you might disagree is a threat, but he clearly does), and makes the analogy with banning driving, i.e. that the benefits might outweigh the costs even if the costs are not zero. Children die in car crashes all the time. He is arguing against appeals to emotion like "if it saves ONE life it's worth it..."

In the same quote he goes on to suggest ways to minimise gun deaths in school shootings, by having more security guards in schools. He clearly isn't cavalierly wanting kids to die, he is just weighting relative threats differently from you.

I'm not American so I don't really see a few household guns as being that helpful against the US military... but I can comprehend his position.

And he was radicalised online.

Well it’s my view that, beneath all his public expressions of outrage and condemnation, Trump is secretly grateful for something that’s diverted the flak he’s been getting. I’m not alone in thinking that all he cares about is his own skin.

Because she wants him to be right wing.

You're expecting an apology after repeatedly ripping words out of context and using them to whitewash your own behaviour? 🙄

So you disagree about empathy vs sympathy - how does that justify cherry-picking a quote to imply that he was being callous?

And oddly enough, your direct quote has a bit missing as well:

"And, of course, our hearts go out to the victims in Kentucky for every one of these situations. But we cannot allow them to emotionally hijack the narrative."

FWIW I disagree with him about guns, but he's right about appeals to emotion when it comes to making policy, and NOT in the way you are misusing it to justify your callousness towards a murder victim.

It's very obvious what you're doing and it's a shoddy way to behave in the wake of a death like this.