Am I considered far right now?

[Septemberisaweirdmonth]

Years ago I would have described myself as liberal and on the left. Over recent years the things I seem to agree with seem to be considered to be on the right and even far right

Examples:

I see nothing wrong with wanting to retain British culture or the innate culture of any country and see nothing wrong with a country being proud of its flag..as many are-Spain, Usa, Portugal etc etc

Whilst I have no issue with anyone being transgender, I do not believe transgender males should play in female sports, be in female toilets, prisons etc and I don’t believe children should be given drugs to alter their gender.

I think immigration in Europe needs to be controlled.,and quickly

I would be put off a man and likely wouldn’t see him again if he asked to split the bill on a first date. I can pay the bill four times over, but that’s not the point.

I am educated to post degree status and worked full time in my career for many years until I had my dc, I then wanted to and was thankfully able to stay at home. I see nothing wrong with the man going out to work, the mum staying home, taking care of the kids and the house-if that suits everyone and they’re happy doing that. My ideal scenario now would be a nice community, homeschooling and raising kids.

I am not anti abortion completely but my stance leans more towards this angle (I don’t tell anyone this though)

I regularly watched Charlie kirk, whilst I didn’t agree with everything and i’m not hugely religious, I agreed with a lot of his points and found he made his points respectfully. I also regularly watch Piers morgan uncensored

I didn’t agree with the almost forcing of people to have the covid injection

I quite like Trump

I feel embarrassed writing all this down as I feel I can’t really say this in real life

Have I become far right?

I have taken it multiple times and always come up as left and libertarian.
The bellicose, authoritarian weirdos in both the left and the right have really ruined political discourse.

No, I didn’t see the murder. Thankfully. I said I was indifferent to the fact he had died. I do have empathy, but not for someone I didn’t know nor think was a particularly nice person. Do you have empathy for everybody who dies? I mean, if no empathy means psychopathy then Charlie himself was a psychopath, no?

The whole thing is genuinely frightening, the fact that lies are spoken as truths, with no concern or care, that immediate hatred and insults are the only language the leftist cult members know (and yes certainly the right wing cult members too but they are not evident on this site).

They will not listen to truth or decency or reason. It seems they cannot listen - at both ends of the spectrum where they are equally terrifying and as bad as one another.

That there are women here on mumsnet cheering on the murder of a man for speaking words they don't like is - well, it's Orwellian.

You are aware of the circumstances of the young man’s murder - that he was ‘executed’, and yet you fail to emphatically condemn it, premised on his views not aligning with yours? And now you seek to infer the victim was a psychopath?

My friend, you have some very twisted views - seriously. Your attitude is abnormal.

No, I do not wish harm on anyone - whether I share their views, or not.

I have had my life threatened and rape and torture threats from more right wing nuts than I care to remember, so I can confirm that they were doing it twenty five years ago. It's not new but it has certainly increased. I can't confirm left wingers doing any of that, because why would they do it to another left winger, but I can confirm there were assholes and freaks among them. Both the right and the left have devolved. We need an island for the sane among us to escape to.

I don’t believe anyone should be murdered for what they say, no, but I’m not obligated to feel empathy for someone who I fundamentally thought was harmful. They weren’t just ‘’views’’. He basically thought some people shouldn’t have rights or even exist. So sorry, no. I don’t wish death on anybody, didn’t cheer, didn’t celebrate, didn’t laugh. You can think someone shouldn’t die for their views and simultaneously be indifferent.

Don’t try and make yourself out to be a saint now. You know full well the right would at least be indifferent at the demise of someone they don’t like, and if you don’t think so then you’re delusional and I don’t know what to say to you.

I haven’t been the one angry at you, yet you’re the one calling me hateful. The irony.

Your words - you felt ‘indifferent’ to the murder. And now you seek to ascribe your behaviour on to others. The deflection reflex is your default it seems.

I have no anger towards you, but the difference between us, is that I would emphatically condemn the murder, wherever the victim sits on the political spectrum (seeing as you mentioned the ‘right’ in your post).

My values, your values.

We leave it there.

Edit - sorry this was in reply to @Maltipoo , quoted the wrong comment!

Yes, back when the internet was new I used to sometimes try to talk to far right people, and can confirm they are as deranged as the far left. Heard some shocking things, from both men and women, about abortion and what women deserved.

One right wing man in particular has never quite left my memory. This was on some American site, I can't even remember the name of it now, it was years ago. It was considered a bit of a lefty site at the time. He was busy telling the world that white women should be brood mares and walking uteruses (he did not quite put it like that but that was his meaning) as we needed to out breed whatever brown skinned people he hated on that particular day. I pointed out to him that if women are to be treated as nothing but a uterus on legs and have no dreams, ambitions, wants or needs outside dropping sprogs at a man's command then it really didn't matter what tribe we lived with, brown, white, who cares? Telling half the human race they have no rights means you don't consider women as functioning human beings, no matter your culture or creed. He became instantly psychotic and threatened me with the most incredible filth.

I think human beings are just unfixable as a species. There are too many people (some seen on this thread) who cannot and will not even try to not "flip their lid", preferring instarage frothing and spewing of cult mantras to attempting to use their pre frontal cortex. They just enjoy being in the cult and chanting and shouting and screaming.

To those people, I no longer even attempt to give a reasonable response. They don't anger me, I am burnt out a bit I think, but they do disgust me and frighten and repel me, so I simply repeat on a loop that I won't talk to them. Usually they will keep trying to provoke a response for many comments, to satisfy their blood lust.

The right and the left, at the end of the spectrum, are absolutely equal to one another in their inhumanity. I don't know what to do about it. I used to think that if maybe, just maybe we could talk enough, for long enough things might change. Now they're openly shooting people dead for speaking words and apparently average women are trying to minimise that and cheering it on.

I try not to worry too much about politics, as a rule, but mumsnet has become excessively politicised. I wish it would stop. There's nothing I can do about any of it, and this sort of thread is just a bait and hook. It offers nothing but regret and revulsion and fear.

Ok, but one very important question before we leave it. Have you cried every time someone is murdered and it’s in the media? Have you felt empathy for every single one? The way you’re acting I hope you have.

If I was famous and died, you can bet your bottom dollar he wouldn’t care for me. He didn’t even believe empathy was a real thing. So why are people making out like it’s the worst thing in the world if I don’t feel it for someone I barely knew, nor liked, and who would never feel it for me? Get a grip of yourself.

Well said.

“The left” don’t go “straight to abuse”. Plenty of leftists on this thread have made their points calmly and respectfully. Occasionally a poster will be rude or insulting, which is out of order. There are also right wingers on this thread who have insulted the left, you seem to have overlooked those posts.

Can we please stop the blanket generalisations? This is actually a decent thread that hasn’t so far been derailed by bickering. It would be great if we could keep it on track,

I was responding specifically to a woman who had been abused directly in this fashion by a leftist and was now being mocked with juvenile emojis. I was showing her some solidarity because she had tried to be decent, and had a leftist cultist ridiculding her.

Indeed the leftists on this site very often do go straight to abusive behaviour. But yes, it's not all leftists, or even all of the ones ones on mumsnet - just the ones who have cult like tendences, which is now, sadly, far too many.

Edited.

Your OP is quite vague really. For example, I have nothing against flying the Union Jack or the England but the truth is at the moment they are being flown (or painted on roads) by people who want to say that immigrants should go home. In this country we normally only get our flags for big football matches or royal occasions.

There is a hotel near me for asylum seekers and the local far right crowd put loads of England flags nearby. They also demonstrated outside and posted on local social media that they were doing it protect women and girls. Later on that day, the council posted that there were only families, including lots of children, in the hotel and no single men. And before anyone asks, it is a Conservative council. So the demonstration was pointless, except it wasn't really about protecting females, it was really about throwing immigrants out.

I think the right to free speech should be inviolable - that’s not to say it should seek to incite violence etc.

Personally, whilst I do not see immigration as the most pressing issue facing this country, others evidently do. If erecting flags to promote the issue is all they do, then carry on. Those doing so, have certainly raised awareness, whether one agrees with them, or not.

One other comment - ignore people with grievances at your peril. Trump was elected precisely because of support from a voter base who felt marginalised.

out of interest, how has immigration affected your life? Your life sounds quite comfortable, not luxurious, but comfortable. Did an immigrant take your husband’s job?

Other questions: if you hadn’t felt judged for being an SAHM, do you think you would have started listening to Trump, Charlie Kirk and Jordan Peterson? Why do you think you are looking for solutions from America (presuming you are in Britain, and a real person not here to stir things up).

Yes I agree about free speech. I take your point about flags in essence being an acceptable form of protest. And also fully agree about your final point about ignoring commonly-held opinions at our peril.

The only trouble is that I fear that much of the free speech at the demonstrations outside asylum seekers hotels crosses the line into hate speech. There was certainly a lot of hate speech on local social media egging the demonstrators on.

I'm sorry you have been through that kind of crap too. Unfortunately seeing too much of human nature has made me rather misanthropic. I know there are lots of good people, but they do seem to be a vanishing breed. I can still engage with others about politics but there is a limit. I need long breaks from it.

And free speech has never included illegal activities like inciting violence anyway. We have all sorts of laws in place, and all we ever needed to do was enforce those laws against incitement etc.

Erecting flags is a completely peaceful protest and anybody who tries to squash that is only leaning into the authoritarian hatred of the average person trope

I’m in my small human era atm and I’ve noticed quite a push from women that they want to stay home and raise the babies that they made.
So I don’t think that’s hugely as far right these days a lot of mothers don’t want other people to raise their children.
Unless you don’t believe in the choice, then I would stay step away from the Andrew Tate videos cause that’s not what we want or mean.

WTAF with the I like trump stuff. For the love of god. He is a pedophile, what do you think happened on Epstein Island!

Genuine questions but what is it you ‘quite like’ about Trump?

But immigration isn’t the only issue in this country. Reform are a one issue party who will present us all far worse problems than immigration. Do remember Farage was supportive of the Liz Truss budget that tanked our economy (I think on purpose for disaster capitalism means), we’re all still paying for that with higher mortgage rates. Farage is also a fan of privatisation of the NHS into the American model.

Both of these make me worry at night about a potential Reform government and how we can mitigate the ill effects on our household finances They will not be competent, they are single issue party with not much besides.

I see nothing wrong with wanting to retain British culture or the innate culture of any country and see nothing wrong with a country being proud of its flag..as many are-Spain, Usa, Portugal etc etc

You see nothing wrong with it inherently, or you don't see how a drive to "save British culture" is being weaponised by regressive elements and chaos-seekers? I wouldn't say the laws for preserving the French language, for example, or the EU "Domain of Origin" laws are "far right" and haven't heard them called so. But using the alleged dilution of culture as an excuse to promote nativist and ethnic nationalist legislation and national policy might suggest some far-right sympathies.

Whilst I have no issue with anyone being transgender, I do not believe transgender males should play in female sports, be in female toilets, prisons etc and I don’t believe children should be given drugs to alter their gender.

This sounds like a defence of women's and children's rights. A far right position would wish to eliminate or suppress transgender people, rather than looking for ways to discuss and balance any potential or actual conflict of rights among multiple marginalised groups. I'd look at why you associate this stance with rightism; that might be a sign of internalised misogyny.

I think immigration in Europe needs to be controlled.,and quickly

So does EUropean arch liberal Donald Tusk, and he's taking steps to do so; is he "far right" now? This is the prevailing view, post-Merkel (who was herself a conservative) and is pretty openly voiced at least throughout the EU. The differences along the political spectrum here are mainly in (1) what are considered proportionate measures to deter immigration, (2) whether and when it's OK to abandon international agreements, and for what goals, and (3) the rhetoric around the whole discussion. Nativist and ethnonationalist motivations for closing borders and ceasing to take asylum applications may (appear to) be "far right" but they are pretty easy to spot.

I would be put off a man and likely wouldn’t see him again if he asked to split the bill on a first date. I can pay the bill four times over, but that’s not the point. I am educated to post degree status and worked full time in my career for many years until I had my dc, I then wanted to and was thankfully able to stay at home. I see nothing wrong with the man going out to work, the mum staying home, taking care of the kids and the house-if that suits everyone and they’re happy doing that.

This sounds like you are conflating personal social choices with legal and policy decisions. You and your partner made a choice that worked for your family; if you're insisting that yours is the only "right" way or you aren't as open to a family where the dad "stays at home" - or, much more practically in most cases, both parents divide childcare and other shared responsibilities equally - there could be some essentialism and misogyny going on. Those aren't inherently far right, but are typically regressive.

I am not anti abortion completely but my stance leans more towards this angle

This sounds potentially authoritarian and inegalitarian, and could be a symptom of righter-than-centre fundamental views UNLESS there is some context like you are actively promoting and where possible working toward reducing the demand for abortion by introducing and normalising better methods of prevention, which necessarily include enabling women to resist sexual force and coercion. The idea that abortion is unacceptable except under very specific, government-mandated conditions is an authoritarian and misogynist position; advocates withhold abortion as a punishment rather than making a principled stand that it is inherently wrong and finding a viable (no pun intended) alternative.

I regularly watched Charlie kirk, whilst I didn’t agree with everything and i’m not hugely religious, I agreed with a lot of his points and found he made his points respectfully. I also regularly watch Piers morgan uncensored

You can watch/read what you like and it's best to observe a spectrum, while also checking against primary sources where possible. However, Charlie Kirk was hyper-capitalist performance art and relied on misrepresenting his opponents and exploiting misinformation and prejudice in his audiences, so the view that "he made his points respectfully" could be confirmation bias of an inegalitarian perspective.

I didn’t agree with the almost forcing of people to have the covid injection

Neither do many liberals or leftists; look at criticism and opposition from across the political spectrum in places like Austria that effectively DID make it the law. In less restrictive regimes like the UK, you have to weigh the perceived public good against the impingement upon individual freedoms. It's mainly the insistence that no one needs the vaccine and it's all a big conspiracy theory (see the USA, where even people fully insured privately or via their jobs were being jerked around for weeks with the possibility that COVID vaccines would not be available this year) that's been perceived as extreme.

I quite like Trump

Again, personal, and it depends on how well you understand what he is CURRENTLY doing. It's one thing to admire isolated actions or pieces of policy - e.g., to like how he imposed effective sanctions against lower-level genocidaires in Myanmar during his first term, or having a knee-jerk positive response to his threat to impose economic measures like tariffs on Russia's trading partners to put pressure on Russia over Ukraine (which is a dangerous precedent and part of an overall damaging and elitist strategy, but has broad superficial appeal). But if you are widely aligning yourself with the project of immediately and hastily dismantling US (and to an extent international) democratic institutions, however flawed, and simply not replacing them with anything except grift and personal gain then yes, that could be something in common with the radical right.

I feel embarrassed writing all this down as I feel I can’t really say this in real life

Do you think that this extreme self-censorship may be contributing to the problem? If you with your long history of liberalism and leftism are not speaking up about these individual concerns and discussing them, can you be surprised if harder-line voices seem to have a monopoly on these views? I'm not advocating putting yourself in danger, but a victim mentality isn't helping anyone.

Yes, I consider this ‘far right’ - as the centre has shifted further right in our lifetime, so it’s been normalised.
It would have been seen as firmly far right a decade ago.

There are lies, more lies and statistics. I would not trust the telegraph. Even if true, 100m is less than 0.005% of the NHS budget and value for money in preventing pandemics and serious illnesses by preventative action. Around the same amount is utilised in providing video games for children’s waiting areas and wards. The either or argument is fallacious.